Culture Minister Sargeant on $50M investment, AI’s impact and the crucial work needed to boost diversity in the arts sector.
In this insightful episode of The Spotlight Podcast, we sit down with Jack Sargeant, the Welsh Labour Party’s Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, as he pulls back the curtain on the demanding, fast-paced nature of his job – from announcing millions in capital funding for the arts sector to co-chairing transition boards for major industry.
As a trained engineer turned politician, Jack brings a unique perspective to his role, aiming to champion and enhance Wales’s rich cultural and creative offerings on both a national and international stage.
He discusses his commitment to ensuring access to the arts for all communities, particularly those from working-class backgrounds, and details how the Welsh Government is fostering growth through Creative Wales – an initiative that has seen a remarkable return on investment by attracting major film and TV productions like House of the Dragon.
The discussion also dives into the crucial partnership with the Arts Council of Wales, the ambitions outlined in the Priorities for Culture document, and the steps being taken to cultivate a resilient, sustainable future for the sector. From his own performing days at school to tackling the complex challenges presented by Artificial Intelligence in the creative industries, Jack Sargeant offers a comprehensive look at his vision for Welsh culture.
Key Discussion Points
- Championing Diversity and Access: Jack Sargeant discusses his commitment to encouraging people from diverse and working-class backgrounds to pursue careers in the performing arts. Drawing on his own unexpected journey from a trained engineer to a government minister – and a former T-Bird in his school’s production of Grease! – he stresses the vital importance of early inspiration and accessibility to cultural institutions like Theatr Clwyd.
- Welsh Government’s Priorities for Culture: Get an insider’s look at the Welsh government’s vision, including the £50 million Priorities for Culture document, designed to build a more resilient, sustainable and inclusive arts sector. The discussion covers how bodies like Creative Wales and the Arts Council of Wales channel investment to support infrastructure, skills and the international promotion of Welsh talent.
- Navigating AI in the Arts: The Minister addresses the ‘hot topic’ of AI and its rapidly evolving role in the creative industries. He shares his pragmatic and ethical stance, emphasizing that AI must serve as a “tool in the creative armoury” – to support, not replace, human creativity. Performers are encouraged to use social partnership and trade unions (like Equity) to ensure their voices are central to these crucial, global conversations on technology and intellectual property.
This episode is an essential listen for actors and creative professionals seeking to understand the political and infrastructural landscape shaping the future of the arts in Wales and beyond. Discover how government strategy, cultural investment and a focus on social partnership are aiming to create more opportunities and security for the creative workforce.
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Show Notes
- Priorities for culture for Wales
- BECS survey
- £15 million financial package to fund priorities for culture
Full Transcript:
Hi, Jack! Can you tell us a bit about yourself and how you came to be the Minister for Culture?
My name’s Jack Sargeant. I am a member of the Senedd in the Welsh Parliament, and I’m also Minister for Culture within the Welsh government as well. So I was appointed as Culture Minister by the First Minister of Wales, Eluned Morgan, last September, so coming up to a year now. But my background in politics is quite unusual. I’m a trained engineer, so there’s not many of me about, and I think there perhaps should be some more with that type of background, or certainly different backgrounds to the usual route into politics.
But I was lucky enough to be asked by the First Minister to take the responsibility to support culture and to be the Culture Minister for Wales in September. And it’s been really, really good to get into grips with the sector, to help in the sector and to shaping the future of the sector of the arts here in Wales. We’ve got a great history of Welsh culture and we need to celebrate more of that and I look forward to continuing to do that.
What does your job as Minister of Culture entail and how does the performing arts fit into what you do?
There’s no regular day. I’m sure any minister in whatever department, in any government across the world, would say that. I’ll give you an example of what I am doing today to give you a flavour. So this morning, I left home rather early. I headed to Venue Cymru in Llandudno to announce £8 million for the arts sector with Arts Council of Wales, and Venue Cymru is one of the recipients of that. It’s one of 40 organisations receiving strategic capital investments from Arts Council of Wales on behalf of the Welsh government.
I joined The Spotlight Podcast just now to talk through all of the things that are happening in the sector. I’ve got more meetings this afternoon, and then I’m off to co-chair the transition board for Port Talbot Steelworks this afternoon. So that’s just a flavour of what I get up to.
I’ll then have some time tonight to go home to my one-year-old son and spend some time with him. So it’s a very, very busy job. You’ve got to have a very forgiving and supportive family at home. But it’s a job I’m very proud to do, and I’m particularly pleased to be able to be Culture Minister and be Sports Minister as well for all of the benefits that brings the people of Wales and the people across the UK.
What did you do to get to grips with Wales’ creativity and cultural offering?
Well, Wales has an extreme amount of cultural creativity, and we’re very proud of that and we want more of that in the future as well. Both on our doorstep, we also want to take our culture across the world as well and promote Wales on a national and international stage. And I think we do that well and we can do better in the future.
But to get to grips with these things, for me, it’s very important to go out and speak to the industry directly. So one of the first things I did was speak to those experts in the field, speak to the chair, the chief executive, the staff at the Arts Council who deliver the funding for the Welsh government to the sector, to, again, go and speak directly to the sector themselves.
One of my favourite visits early on, when I was able to provide in-year funding during a challenging period for the sector in Wales, was to visit NoFit State Circus in Cardiff. And just understanding what that means for them, what the challenges are, what the opportunities are in the future – I think that’s the best way of getting to grips with any industry, whatever ministerial portfolio you may have. But certainly, for a sector like the arts sector in Wales, it’s very good to get out and speak to them, speak to representatives of performers.
I’m very keen as responsibility holder for social partnership in Wales to have that link with the trade unions across the country, but especially in the cultural sector. So the Musicians’ Union, people I talk to quite often, are the same with equity unions, to understand what it really is, what’s happening on the ground, where can the government help support in the future, and during those challenging periods, what can we do to find a way forward? And as I say, I’m quite unusual. I’m an engineer by trade, so I’d like to try and solve problems if we can. And I think the best way of doing that is collaboration. So, firstly, understanding, getting to grips, as you say, and then seeing how we can move forward together.
Could you explain as well how your department works with the Arts Council of Wales?
So the Arts Council of Wales, they’re an arm’s-length body from the Welsh government. They’re, as I say, expert led. They’re people who know the industry and all of the Welsh government’s funding for the arts sector that is channelled through the Arts Council. The example I’ll give again is the money that we’re here to announce today, the £8 million is part of the Priorities for Culture, which I launched earlier this year.
The applications have gone into the Arts Council, they’ve been reviewed by the Arts Council and they’ve been determined by the Arts council what is a successful application and perhaps what is not a successful application. 40 organisations have received the total sum of £8 million today to invest in capital infrastructure in places like theatres, but in other areas as well, to really not just help in the immediate term, but also sustain for the future. So Venue Cymru will go on for future generations to be able to enjoy all the things that Venue Cymru can offer.
And that’s the way the relationship works. It’s an honest relationship between Arts Council. We have regular meetings, I have biannual scrutiny sessions with them. They’re accountable to me as minister, but they are very honest conversations and I really value my relationship with the Arts Council, particularly the chair and chief executive.
We have robust discussion, and it’s good discussion because I think that’s the best way of getting through some of the challenges. And I’ve really enjoyed my time getting to know them in this role and then working together as well. And I think we’ve done some very good things in the last year working together in that way.
Do you have any experience in performing?
Not as an adult. I haven’t had performing experience as an adult. However, I was once a T-Bird in a performance of Grease in school. And I mention that because I had a feeling that you might ask something along these questions, but I often think that’s most people’s way into the arts, that experience you get in school.
And it was invaluable for me. I really enjoyed it, but I was reflecting overnight about what happened to the other people who played the T-Birds, and all things that were involved in Grease. And one of my fellow T-Birds has gone on to perform all over the world in shows. It’s his career. And I just think it’s exactly what I want to try and give people the opportunity to do.
So when I came into the post, I’ve said to my team, I’ve said to all our organisations and cultural organisations across Wales, access is crucial to me. So access to create or participate or just see what all of the arts has to offer in a way that you want to, is incredibly important to me.
And particularly from that working class community, like my community, get in, have a go, and you never know, you might be starting as a T-Bird in the school play, you might be on cruise ships performing around the world. And I think it’s a really, really valuable point. So no, not as an adult, but I have in the past, I suppose you can say.
The school that I performed at still talk about it. So I recently did a visit there and they had a picture of me as a T-Bird. I don’t have that photo and I’m conscious that it stays that way.
The Welsh Labour Manifesto is quite broad in its commitments to arts and culture, particularly regarding support for Creative Wales. Could you tell us a bit about what that has looked like for the past year?
We’ve supported Creative Wales since its introduction. It’s been five years now since the establishment of Creative Wales. And Creative Wales is a way of really helping and supporting the creative industry. So film and TV productions, music productions, games, innovation and all of those types of things. I’m really proud of the work that we’ve been able to achieve through Creative Wales. The return on investment is incredible. So for every £1 we spend, we get £12 in return.
And if I just focus on film and TV, we’ve seen in the last few years, some incredible productions come to Wales. So just down the road from where I am now, House of the Dragon was filmed on location. Amazing opportunity with the scenery that we have here. We’ve seen Netflix productions being filmed out of production studios and on set and on location in Cardiff. Havoc is one of the big ones. So Tom Hardy’s been knocking around the streets of Cardiff and doing all of those things, and that’s because of the investments of Creative Wales.
And then all of the things that Creative Wales has tried to do to support the sector and those who work in the sector. Particularly skills and making sure that we have a sustainable workforce here in Wales is a crucial next step for us. And we’ve been able to do that because of the establishment of Creative Wales. So our support for Creative Wales is unwavering, and we’ll go on continuing to support Creative Wales in that way. I think it’s a really, really good offer that we have.
I think of when I’ve been to places across the world. I’ve been in San Francisco, we were talking about the games industry and what Creative Wales can do. And I bring that into a very important production because, actually, if we look at the creative industries as a whole, we don’t just talk about these in silos. It’s not just music on their own. It’s not just the on-sets and behind the scenes stuff that happens in theatres or movies. All of that can be transferred into other areas as well.
So one of the exciting things I saw in a visit to a local museum, I spoke about it in San Francisco, was the fact that the set design for a game was actually developed by the same person who has created the game, painted the on-set scenery. And I just thought that was fantastic because he’s using his skills as an artist to develop into a game, the music was Welsh language music being brought into the game, and then hopefully the game will go on to be produced and developed and sold around the world.
And I think that’s bringing culture as a whole to people and bringing access to Welsh culture right across the globe in a way that has never been done before perhaps. And I think that’s partly because of the establishment of Creative Wales and the money that will be able to support them in that way.
There’s a lot of effort going in from a lot of people here. And I think the most successful stories that we can pinpoint are because of the industry itself. We are able to do things in government to help support people, but without the creativity and the resilience of the sector, then we wouldn’t be where we want to be. And, obviously, we want to grow on top of that as well.
So I’m very proud of the work that I’ve been able to achieve so far. I think there’s more to do, always keen to do more and always will push on to do more, but that has to be done with the people in the sector. You talked about speaking directly to the trade unions, and I’m very keen for that to happen because those are the people who know what’s happening on the ground and know what we can do to make sure the culture sector and the art sector is sustainable for the future and grows. And I’m very committed to doing that in my time as Minister for Culture.
What will your priorities for culture be for the next year?
We announced the Priorities for Culture document earlier this year. We announced a financial package around that. So it was a total of £50 million. I’m here today announcing the £8 million investment into capital infrastructure in the arts sector through Arts Council of Wales. There’s the remaining funding there, and that will go, again, in delivering against the Priorities for Culture. So the three priorities of the culture sector, as the document sets out, is a culture that brings everyone together, culture that celebrates Wales as a nation of culture, and then indeed culture that is resilient and sustainable.
So I’ve set out, when I announced those priorities, a number of things that I’m going to do. We’re going to look at the workforce, we’re going to look at investing into local museums and galleries, and it’ll be delivering against those priorities over the next year in the run-up to the Senedd elections. So we’ve got lots to do, but I’m very much looking forward to what the next year can bring.
The Priorities for Culture document isn’t just a document for me, it’s not just a document for the government, although it’s very much cross-government collaboration needed and the cabinet are signed up to doing that. But it’s a document for the sector. It was delivered and co-produced by the sector for the sector. And I look forward to delivering the ambitions in the document alongside the sector. And I think we’ve got some good things to come in Wales.
I think the most important thing about producing the Priorities for Culture or some sort of document like that is that it’s done with the sector. So it’s not my Priorities for Culture, it’s our Priorities for Culture. It’s the nation’s priorities and we can all work towards that common goal. And look, there’s obviously challenges that still remain in the sector that is the same for organisations across the world.
But I think it’s about that – building the resilience of the sector, building the sustainable sector, and then growing together and growing through them together. And I think that the Priorities for Culture does help us do that. It gives us a vision of where we want to be and how we want to achieve some of the things within there. And then, of course, as the future and as we build, we’ll look to support the sector as much as we can.
We’re very proud to be the nation that celebrates Welsh culture both on your doorstep. And again, I want working-class kids in communities like mine to go down the street and make sure they access the culture on their doorstep, but I also want the world to see what Wales can offer. And just this summer, the Cymru women’s football team were in Switzerland, and I was proud to send, with funding through our partner support fund, the £1 million additional fund for that tournament.
We sent a resident poet over to Switzerland and she made TV stations across the world. I’ve got a best friend who lives over in the Netherlands, and she was on his news channel at six o’clock celebrating Welsh poetry. It’s exactly what we wanted to do in the future. We’ve got lots to offer as a nation of culture and I’m very, very proud that we’ve been able to do some of those things. I want to do more of that in the future.
That’s the history of Wales, isn’t it? The land of song and all of the things. If you look back at Welsh history in its entirety, I think our identity and how our unique Welsh culture plays into that is very important to us and that’s not going away. I’m very, very proud to be Welsh, and I think everyone in Wales is proud to be Welsh, and our Welsh identity will certainly shape our culture of the future as well.
A survey by the British Equity Collecting Society suggests that over 50% of actors come from a background typically associated with the highest levels of social and economic privilege. What more do you think can be done to encourage more people from diverse ranges of backgrounds to become performers and to have those successful careers?
So I think there’s a number of things that can be done. I think we’ve got to have a skills system set up to be able to support people. And I think some of the work that Creative Wales is doing, particularly on skills, is really important. I look back to an early visit in my tenure as Culture Minister to Bad Wolf in Cardiff. They produced Doctor Who, they produced lots of inspiring productions.
And Jane [Tranter], who runs Bad Wolf, is just incredible herself. When I was there, we were able to see the Skills Academy Wales and a number of people from the local community. So it’s on an industrial estate and lots of people from the local community were involved in, at some level, a skills programme. I didn’t just meet people in front of the camera – I met people behind the camera, but not just doing the technical things. I met people in legal, I met people in admin, and they were all pursuing a different avenue in what the performing arts can offer.
And I think that’s how we should look at it. We should look at the realm, not just what’s performing as a performer, but all the support network behind as well, and there’s career options there. So I think there’s some very important things that we can do. So firstly making sure we have a system set up to be able to do that, but also offer inspiration and that often is about that early access.
We talked about my friend from school who was a T-Bird who now is performing around the world and on ships and in other performances in London and the West End and so on. Well, he had that early inspiration in school of being a T-Bird and doing all of those things and went on. I think that’s one way of doing it. And often, in North East Wales where I’m from, there’s a place called Theatr Clwyd. It’s where I got my first experience of live performance. The second story I have of perhaps being involved in some level of arts was behind the camera. I was eight years old, holding a camera, and we produced a short film which was played at Theatr Clwyd.
But we just reopened Theatr Clwyd following a £50 million redevelopment and the Welsh government supported £26.5 million of that. And what that means to people in not just my area but for the whole of Wales and the North West of England, often that place is the early inspiration, it’s the first live performance that you will go to in your lifetime, and I think that helps set that inspiration to say you can do this as well.
So I think inspiring people, setting up a system with skills through Creative Wales and the support there and the wider network. And then attracting the types of industry that we want to Wales and the types of productions that we want to Wales, and making sure that’s on a sustainable footing will certainly try and help. But the inspiration and access is crucial to this.
And as I say, I’m very committed to doing that. I think the Priorities for Culture sets out why access is important. And one of the first speeches I made, I used the analogy, little Jack from the Deeside, which is where I’m from. If he wants to be an opera singer or dance in the ballet, how does he do that?
And if we use that test in a number of years’ time to say, is that an option? Is it a viable option? Can it be done? And if we go somewhere to meeting that option, I think we will improve greatly on the stats that you see there. And I’m very committed to doing that because why shouldn’t little Jack from Deeside sing in the opera or dance in the ballet?
There’s an increased focus on AI in the industry. What steps would you like to see taken to ensure AI is always there to support but not replace human creativity and the arts?
So support and not replace is the starting point, isn’t it? And I think that should be the starting point for all conversations on AI. I have the responsibility for social partnership in Wales, which means bringing the conversations together with trade unions and employers on the other side. And I think the work that the Social Partnership Council has done on AI in general in the public sector in Wales is also a model that could be used for the creative industry.
So what we say in there is a number of principles where AI can be used, and if it is used, it’s used ethically and it’s used responsibly, but it’s used in a way that supports the workforce and does not replace them. And it’s very much done in a just transition. So it’s done in that way of supporting the workforce to the next place. And I’m very conscious, particularly in the creative industries, that AI doesn’t replace creativity.
So it might do some of the more admin work, but again, it has to be done in consultation with the workforce and in that just transition to a better place. But it actually allows and enhances the creativity of our performers and creators in the future because I think that’s the way in which AI should be used. It’s that responsible and ethical way. And actually I think this is a conversation that needs to happen on a global basis.
I think it’s a conversation that needs to happen much more wider than just Wales and the UK. I think we all have a responsibility to allow this type of conversation to happen because there is a very real concern, isn’t there? We want to protect intellectual property, we want to protect innovation and we want to protect creativity. And I think that needs to happen on an international scale where actually the industry needs to come together and governments across the world need to come together to find the right approach here.
And the Welsh government and myself would be very supportive of that approach where we can use AI. I’m very pragmatic about this. I was an engineer who put systems into places that improved certain systems, but what we want to do is do it in the right way where we don’t replace the workforce. We do it where basically it’s a tool in the creative armoury, but it doesn’t replace creativity at all.
It actually helps enhance and allows performers to be outperforming, I think would be the best way of putting it. And we’d be very supported to have those conversations, but they have to be done with the workforce.
What more do you think actors could do to have their voices heard around key issues like AI?
So social partnership is crucial. Social partnership means bringing people together, bringing representatives of a certain workforce together, bringing them together with their employees as well. And I think collaboration in that view is the way forward. So I would encourage anyone to have those conversations that are sometimes difficult and challenging, but also offer opportunities in the future to make sure we’re having them together.
And the workforce is crucial to this in all sectors, but particularly in the art sector as well. We want to make sure that we’re supportive of the sector. It’s why I talk to Musicians’ Union on a regular basis because they know what’s happening on the ground. And I think that route of being open and direct and having those sometimes difficult conversations, you’ll find a better solution to the end to that.
It’s a common problem. It’s not just my problem or a minister’s problem in a different government. It’s someone’s problem and it’s all of ours. So let’s get round the table and have those discussions. I think we very much want to work in social partnership with the sector in Wales. I’m definitely committed to doing that, and I’d encourage people across the world really to do exactly the same, make sure that they listen to the workforce and come through the other side.
I think you said it all in not replacing. It’s there to support, isn’t it? And AI, that should be said for everything. I think whatever happens should be done in a just transition, protecting the creativity and enhancing the workforce, enhancing the creativity of performance and the performance of the workforce.
Finally, what was the last thing you saw at the theatre or on screen that you particularly enjoyed?
On screen, what I particularly enjoyed was a series called Y Golau, which in English is called The Light in the Hall. It’s a S4C Welsh-language production mystery drama, but it also has sold its English language rights to Channel 4 and over in America as well. And I was very lucky to be able to see the premiere of season two at the National Eisteddfod just a few months ago in the summer. It’s coming out soon, so I’m not going to say much more of that. Check out Y Golau season one, and keep an eye out for season two. It’s very, very good. And I particularly enjoyed watching that with family.
And then at the theatre, I can’t remember when it was. It was a few months ago now, but actually Theatr Clwyd in Mould, just down the road from where I live, as I said, we’ve supported Theatr Clwyd, the £50 million redevelopment, 26 million from the Welsh government, significant capital investment. They put on a special performance all about the reopening of Theatr Clwyd and what that will mean for the local area.
And it got me so excited because they were opening the doors, all of the things that were happening. It was the cast that you see regularly there. And I think that was just a special moment for the area. And what it got me very excited about is taking my son to the Pantomime in a few months’ time. So I think those probably were the two most enjoyable that I’ve seen so far. So yeah, definitely check out all of the opening shows at Theatr Clwyd and keep an eye out for the Y Golau series two.
Actionable Insights:
Jack Sargeant’s insights clearly illuminate the path forward for a sustainable and inclusive arts sector, placing a high value on access and advocacy. For those just starting their journey, understanding the industry’s evolving landscape—from skills investment to technological shifts—is paramount. Here are a few key, actionable steps to ensure your career thrives in this environment:
- Look beyond the stage. Investigate skill pathways offered by organisations like Creative Wales, recognizing that roles in administration, legal, or production are valuable career options within the wider creative economy.
- Amplify your voice on AI. Connect with your industry trade union, such as Equity, to actively participate in the crucial discussions ensuring new technologies are used to support and not replace human creativity.
- Seek local inspiration and access. Engage with regional cultural hubs and local theatres—like Theatr Clwyd—as they often serve as key starting points for live performance experience and offer vital community connections.
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