Scotland’s Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Angus Robertson, discusses the future of the nation’s arts scene, from a booming screen industry to supporting new talent.
In this episode of The Spotlight Podcast, we’re joined by Angus Robertson, Scotland’s Cabinet Secretary for Culture to discuss nurturing new talent, the magic of the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe and how the government is helping actors and artists make their mark in Scotland’s booming screen industry.
Angus Robertson / Image credit: The Scottish Government
Key takeaways from the episode include:
- Financial Support for the Arts: The Scottish government has committed to a record-breaking increase in cultural and arts spending, aiming to raise funding by £100 million a year to help the sector recover from recent financial distress.
- Multi-Annual Funding: Scotland has introduced multi-annual year funding for major cultural organisations, providing greater financial stability and allowing them to focus on creative work rather than short-term fundraising.
- Booming Screen Industry: Scotland’s screen sector is experiencing unprecedented growth, with the goal of becoming a billion-pound industry by 2030. Initiatives like Screen Scotland, the phenomena of Outlander and the introduction of screen studies in schools are key to nurturing local talent and attracting international projects.
- Challenges of Edinburgh Festivals: Robertson acknowledges that the high cost of accommodation during the Edinburgh festivals is a significant barrier for performers and talks about ongoing efforts to address this through partnerships with universities and alternative housing solutions.
- Addressing Social Mobility: The government is focused on ensuring that people from all backgrounds have the opportunity to succeed in the creative industries. This includes promoting fair work practices and using new initiatives, like the screen studies curriculum, to reach disadvantaged communities.
- Post-Brexit Barriers: Robertson criticises Brexit as a “total disaster” for the arts and expresses concern about the remaining barriers for performers touring in the EU. He continues to press the UK government to rejoin the Creative Europe program.
- The End of River City: The cancellation of the BBC soap opera is a cause for concern, as it provided crucial experience for new Scottish talent. Robertson is actively engaging with broadcasters to ensure that new drama commissions are developed in Scotland to fill the gap.
- Pro-Scottish Culture: As a member of the Scottish government, Robertson emphasises a commitment to a pro-Scottish culture that is “open and outward-looking,” welcoming both domestic and international projects and talent.
Whether you’re a performer, a cultural enthusiast, or simply curious about the future of the arts in Scotland, this conversation offers invaluable insight into how culture and creativity are being nurtured.
Take a listen:
Show Notes
Transcript:
Hi Angus. Can you tell us a bit about yourself and your current role within the Scottish government?
Angus Robertson: I’m the Scottish Government’s Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution for External Affairs and for Culture. I’m originally from Edinburgh. I was born in London, but I grew up in Edinburgh and I now represent Edinburgh Central in the Scottish Parliament.
I had quite a few years when I was in the UK Parliament in London, between 2001 and 2016 and I then managed to get elected to the Scottish Parliament, where my party, the SNP, is in government. I was lucky enough to be asked to do, what is frankly, a dream job for somebody whose background is international.
I was a broadcaster based in Vienna for the best part of a decade, covering diplomatic affairs and I’ve always had a strong interest in [all] things cultural. As somebody who supports Scottish independence, being able to have a responsibility as we move towards rejoining the international community of nations. Those are the three main things in my responsibilities as a cabinet sector in the Scottish government.
I have others. I’m responsible for the diaspora, for example, which fits in neatly with the likes of culture, and our external affairs, and the direction of travel that Scotland’s going in.
I have two young daughters, and three dogs, and a wife who’s very patient with the demands of somebody doing the kind of job that I do.
What does your job entail and how do the creative arts fit into that?
Angus Robertson: The culture part of my portfolio has been a particularly live issue since I took up the post in 2021. Thinking back, emerging from COVID, [there were] a lot of challenges for the cultural and art sector here, but [for] the rest of the world as well, there’d been a big challenge keeping cultural organisations, venues, and performers’ heads above water financially during COVID. And since then, dealing with a lot of financial distress in the sector as it has been finding its feet and recovering from that particular pressure, but others too. To be in office at that time, to try and make the best decisions that we can to support the culture and arts sector, has been really close to my heart. We’ve managed to make some pretty big financial commitments, in terms of more government support for the sector. The biggest ever increase in spending in culture and the arts in Scotland since the beginning of devolution. I’m very proud that the government I serve in has made that commitment and we’re delivering on it. We may come back to some of that, but that’s a very big part of what I do.
Another bit of what I do in the wider culture and art sector, which I think is particularly interesting, is what’s happening with the screen sector – what’s happening for television, film, gaming, and the wider sector that goes with that. If we’d been having this conversation 10 or 20 years ago, we would’ve had a very underdeveloped screen sector in Scotland, relative to the talent that we managed to export to the rest of the world. But what we’re now managing to do is foster an environment where the success of the screen sector, whether that’s for television, film or gaming, is pretty astonishing. Those are the two contributing factors to the culture portfolio, but you’ll appreciate it’s much wider than that.
I think things are in a much stronger place than they were as we were emerging from COVID.
Then on top of all of that, we’ve got a remarkable festivals sector, in Scotland in general, but in Edinburgh in particular, which I feel very duty-bound, but with great pleasure to be as supportive as we can be, because obviously festivals are now a thing right across the world, which was not the case when the Edinburgh International Festival was established in 1947. Anyway, it’s a very broad range of responsibilities. And I’m delighted to try and play my part in helping all of it and go from strength-to-strength.
Screen Scotland received a significant increase in their budget from the Scottish government. What do you want that investment to achieve?
Angus Robertson: For people who don’t follow the sector in Scotland, Screen Scotland is our national film agency, which is supported through Creative Scotland, our arm’s length culture organisation, which is funded by the Scottish government. The increase in money that’s been provided to Screen Scotland is to do a broad range of things but, amongst other things, to help secure projects in Scotland, both domestically and internationally, to help grow the sector. We’re now more than halfway to the screen sector being a billion-pound industry. And we’re ahead of the curve in it reaching a billion pounds by 2030, which isn’t very far away. Screen Scotland is a key driver in helping make all of that happen.
It’s about supporting the sector – the making of film and television – supporting work from public service broadcasting to every format of filmmaking you can imagine. And also, helping secure international projects that come to Scotland, all of which are helping the different boats rise in the sector.
It’s also doing something, which I think is really, really exciting for us, but perhaps might also inspire other countries to have a look at what Scotland is doing, namely the introduction of screen studies throughout our education system. Both primary and secondary schooling, and then the further development of screen studies in colleges and universities as part of this growing success story of the sector more generally. Because if you’re doing more here, you need people with the requisite skills, craft skills, on-screen skills, you name it, and so, we’re in a really fortunate position that there’s significant growing demand to produce more in Scotland indigenously, but also from elsewhere.
That’s great, but we want to help foster all of that, and grow the skills, and the opportunities for people to work in the sector here because until now we have basically produced amazing world talents – the podcast isn’t long enough for me to name-drop everybody who has been a success story in film, television and gaming – but they have largely become successful outside Scotland.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t work and live abroad, I’ve done it and think it’s a great thing to do, but it has meant in the past that we’ve had a very underdeveloped, underfinanced, undercommissioned sector. Now that we are beginning to get all of that working a lot better, there’s still more to do but a lot is going better, then we need to make sure that people understand that as never before, if you’re interested in working in film, television, gaming, that the opportunities to do that in Scotland are unprecedented.
I think, for a young person going through school, college, university, who’s interested in getting involved in all of that, I would strongly encourage them to have a look at the Screen Scotland website to see what is happening and get involved.
Kristyn Coutts: My cousin actually went through the gaming route. He took advantage of all the opportunities that were there, because obviously the gaming industry is huge in Scotland.
Angus Robertson: Sorry to interrupt you there, because you’re making a really excellent point about gaming. I’m not sure how many people around the world know that Grand Theft Auto is Scottish. And others beside. There are really big names, big companies, and tremendous talent here in Scotland. A lot of it has come out of Dundee and Tayside, but you’ve got other games companies that are based elsewhere in Scotland.
What we’re also seeing is other parts of the cultural sector being able to plug into that growing part of the screen sector. So, for example, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (RSNO), which is one of our five national performing companies funded by the Scottish government, doing an increasing amount of work for the games and the wider screen sector because it doesn’t matter where the orchestra is sitting, rehearsing and recording, relative to where a project is being completed, whether that’s in the United States or here. If you’ve got an excellent orchestra, like the RSNO, that can do your soundtrack to the highest standards, then that is just an example of the spin-off benefits of Scotland’s reputation reaching ever higher levels.
An example of that, I was speaking to a significant figure in the American filmmaking industry, who’s in the process of wanting to relocate he and his family to Scotland. Because obviously, [there’s a] great quality of life but also, he understands that, as never before, he can do what he does working out of Edinburgh. That’s what he hopes to be able to do in the future.
Also attesting to the fact is that there are other people in the industry who recognise what Scotland has to offer. Yes, for all those iconic shots of Scotland being Scotland, but potential iconic shots of Scotland being something else. There are a number of films that you could watch. And I’m talking about big budget American movies, where New York or Gotham City is not filmed in New York, it’s filmed in Glasgow. Where we recently saw Frankenstein being filmed with a lot of Gothic backdrops in Edinburgh. Where we’ve just had J.J. Abrams doing a science fiction project filmed in Edinburgh. We’ve had very significant projects. Tetris, for example, being filmed in Aberdeen and I could go on. The point is, yes, Scotland is a place where it’s very recognisably Scotland with a variety of beautiful backdrops, but it’s also just a great place to do projects. We’re now, I think, at the cusp of very significant producers being confident that not only can they film parts of projects or significant parts of films, they can do it all here and that will take us then to the next step of pre and post-production.
We’ve also had recent decisions by one significant American company in particular, Halon, who have opened an animation studio in Scotland. So, you name it, there are interests internationally as well as domestically.
We’re also working with public service broadcasters in the UK to make sure that whether it’s the BBC or Channel 4, or other commercial broadcasters, Scottish Television and others, are able to do as much as they can here. It’s all part of that growing success story, which is married together with a lot of emerging talent as well, in front of camera and behind the camera. I think we can look with great confidence towards the future. That’s why I’m so supportive of Screen Scotland, because they’re amazing.
If there’s anybody listening or watching this podcast that is interested in doing television, a film, a gaming project, have a look at Scotland. Get in touch with Screen Scotland, because you’ll be well-supported. That’s why I have such confidence in them, because they have supported so many projects that have been commercially successful, have been released to very significant positive critical reviews. And I’m not just talking about commercial projects, but very artistic projects, very independent projects, different forms of screen projects. I think we can be very proud, and the people who work for Screen Scotland should be very proud of what they’re achieving. I’m completely behind what they’re doing, which is why we have significantly increased their budget so they can do more of it.
How involved were you with the creation of FirstStage Studios and the ongoing development of the Caledonian Film Studios?
Angus Robertson: I think it’s helpful for people to understand that if we were doing this podcast 10 years ago, 20 years ago, if I was to describe the studio landscape in Scotland, it would’ve been… The BBC has facilities in Glasgow. STV has some facilities in Glasgow, and Channel 4 were beginning to commission stuff but in terms of studios, that was pretty much it. Things were so forlorn that people hoped that Sean Connery, for example, might buy a studio or support a studio because nobody else was. That was a reality 20 years ago.
Now you’ve mentioned two studios, there are more than that and there are more projects in the pipeline. In terms of the involvement of the Scottish government and Screen Scotland, well, it’s our screen agency that is the key interlocutor for the industry. And they’ve been very involved in supporting these projects.
As it happens, you mentioned FirstStage Studios, which is an excellent facility in Leith, in Edinburgh, which is run in part by Jason Connery, the son of Sean Connery. So, there is a kind of connection to what was the forlorn hope. Of course, Sean Connery was a great flag waver for Scotland and the screen sector in Scotland. But now we are seeing those gaps, because we have been very underserved.
I think we should recognise that one of the great trailblazers in all of this was the series Outlander, which is for those who haven’t watched it, a sort of time travel Jacobite historical series. I think it’s gone into series eight and now the prequel is coming out as well. It’s been hugely commercially successful. What some people might not know about it is that when the decision was made that it should be significantly shot in Scotland, most of it, there wasn’t a studio for it, so they had to set everything up themselves. They also had to develop in-house training, because they couldn’t find a lot of people with the requisite skills for what they were wanting to do. If you speak to people in the screen sector in Scotland, the number of people who said, “Oh, yeah, I got a break working on Outlander doing this or doing that apprenticeship or doing this, that, the next thing.” Whether one is an Outlander fan, aficionado or not, I think when the history books are written as to why the Scottish film sector really went up the gears, I think Outlander will be there, up there in light.
But there’s also another curious dimension to all of that, which is the spin-off benefits that we’re getting from people who are fans of series like Outlander, and then will come and visit Scotland. [They] will want to go and see all kinds of castles that have been a key backdrop in Outlander over the years. And some of them weren’t tremendously visited before they featured in Outlander, and now there’s a regular stream of visitors. I’m reliably informed that it’s one of the most visited pages on the website of Scotland’s national tourism authority, VisitScotland. So, again, if there’s anybody listening or watching this podcast who is interested in seeing where that series or anything else has been produced, to go to the VisitScotland website. You can get information about where these places are, which can be visited.
River City has been cancelled and it was a show where a lot of new Scottish performers gained TV experience. What plans are there to encourage new drama to be made in Scotland so opportunities for actors starting their careers don’t disappear?
Angus Robertson: I’ll recount a story which I think is quite an interesting vignette in relation to the phenomenon that you’re talking about. I’d had the good fortune to visit the filming of The Rig, which stars Martin Compston, one of Scotland’s great contemporary actors – that was at a FirstStage Studio in Leith – I went down to see it being filmed. I got to meet the cast, and I got to meet a lot of the apprentices who were getting their first break on a project and after formally meeting them, one of them came over and said, “Listen, can you come over and speak to us for a second?” I had no idea what they were going to ask. They were all interested, but in fairness, also concerned, they said to me, “Do I think that this will carry on for them?” I said that I was very confident, as the first Scottish government culture secretary, to be able to say this to them, because it’s a relatively new phenomena, that because the scale of productions in Scotland going up as significantly as they are, that I think there will be through career opportunities in Scotland in a way that there have never been. People might’ve been able to do this kind of project or that kind of project, but if they wanted to do something else or develop a skill in a particular direction, they would often have to leave, go to London and the southeast of England, go to the States, go elsewhere. I’m all in favour of people going elsewhere and learning skills elsewhere, but please come back. But i’m saying to these young people who want to work in the industry that there will be opportunities like never before.
Now, does that mean that life is straightforward, particularly for freelancers in the film and television sector all of the time? Absolutely not. There are all kinds of stories of people finding it very difficult. And River City‘s a really good bad example of something that… So, for those people who don’t know, River City is a Scottish soap opera that has been broadcast on the BBC in Scotland for a long, long time. It’s been responsible for employing a lot of people, giving a lot of people breaks, but also giving a lot of people breaks into the sector who might not ordinarily have made it. It has been a series about ordinary working people’s lives in West Central Scotland and that’s a part of our national life that hasn’t always been visible on people’s screens. So, it served a number of purposes.
The BBC has taken the view that it doesn’t think that people’s viewing habits are sticking with a soap opera format, that viewing figures are down, therefore they need to think about new ways of doing things. I’ve been trying to be very clear that firstly it’s not for the Scottish government’s cabinet secretary for culture to say we need more of that or less of that, that’s not the role for government. But I have said to the BBC that I’m really, really concerned about decisions that might be detrimental for people’s opportunities for entry, particularly for deprived social economic potential entrants to the industry, for indigenous talent, screenwriting talent [etc.] The BBC has said they’re very mindful of all of that and they’ve said they’re commissioning more.
There’re more projects, but it still doesn’t assuage me of all of my concerns, because some projects are long-running, some of them are not. We all know there’s not a job for life in pretty much any sector nowadays, and I think people understand that. But I would’ve hoped that we would have seen more drama on Scottish screens and screens elsewhere, because they’re great stories, great drama stories about things that happened in Scotland that are of interest elsewhere in the world. And one of those developments recently has been the first high-end television production in the Gaelic language, Scotland’s indigenous Celtic language, An t-Eilean, ‘The Island’, which has been bought and shown in Scandinavian television and elsewhere. They’ve commissioned a second series so the question about drama really matters and producing output from here really matters. I’m very keen, whilst being the strongest enthusiast and tribune for the direction of travel being good, where there are bumps in the road, I’ve also said, look, I think this is a cause for concern.
I’ve also had concerns about the way that rules of public service broadcasting, commissioning in Scotland, because there are rules in the UK about commissioning outside London in the southeast of England, and quite rightly so, as a way of getting more success. We’ve seen that with Doctor Who in Wales, Game of Thrones in Northern Ireland and projects in the English regions. The BBC setting up its main broadcasting centre outside London in Salford by Manchester. All of these are really, really good developments and the direction of travel has been really good. However, there’s been growing concern that some of these projects that are supposed to fulfil these rules, which should have a significant connection to the nations and regions where the projects are being delivered, but would often appear to be done by companies that are still based in London. [They] may have a few people sitting behind a brass plate in an office in Glasgow or elsewhere, satisfying the rules about outside London and the southeast of England commissioning but, to be honest, that means that we’re not getting full value out of the process of producing more things here.
I do understand that not everything changes overnight. One doesn’t go from a significantly underdeveloped sector to having everybody in place to fulfil all of the roles in situ. I also appreciate that there are different kinds of production. There was an issue around the series Traitors, which is produced for UK, but also the US version of that show. Alan Cumming, many of you know, amazing Scottish talent presenting that, but beyond him, hardly anybody from Scotland was involved in that production. We need to make sure that as we’re heading in the right direction, we are genuinely seeing the boats rise and not people just turning up because the location is nice, being there for a while and going. We’re trying to build a sustainable sector. And to do that by growing the talent base here. It’s significant already, but it will grow further. And of course, be open to people coming here from elsewhere or indeed projects being delivered here by companies that are based outside Scotland, too. That goes without saying, but we’re trying to turn this tank around.
Maybe that’s an encouragement that I can use this podcast to say to people who have film, television, production companies outside Scotland, have you thought about setting up in Scotland? Because there are amazing projects, there are amazing opportunities, and there is a requirement for public service broadcasters to commission more from companies that are genuinely based here and become part of the ecosystem. You’d be very welcome.
Edinburgh Festival and EdFringe are a great opportunity to showcase homegrown talent to an international audience – what more do you think could be done to showcase the talent on display?
Angus Robertson: Well, the first thing is to say is that the Edinburgh International Festival and the Edinburgh Festival Fringe are two of Edinburgh’s 12 festivals. I’m not going to reel them all off, because I’m bound to forget one and then I’ll be in big trouble. But Edinburgh is the festival’s capital of the world, because it does the Edinburgh International Festival, which is the traditional festival that has become world renowned, and has been here since 1947. And then the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, which is by a factor of X now bigger than the Edinburgh International Festival. But at the same time you’ve got the Edinburgh Military Tattoo, and you’ve got the Edinburgh Children’s Festival, and the Edinburgh Book Festival, and the Edinburgh Arts Festival. See, I’ve started to list things off, I’m going to stop.
But all kinds of different musical genres, and you name it, there’s a festival that covers it. Now, these are world-class festivals, so it’s not for the government to tell the festival sectors how they can improve what they’re doing. They’re great at doing what they’re doing. However, what I’ve done is brought together our festivals. And not just Edinburgh’s festivals, we’ve got amazing festivals elsewhere in Scotland. Celtic Connections, biggest traditional music festivals in the world. We’ve got the Wigtown Book Festival. We’ve got festivals in the Western Isles, in the Northern Isles, and everywhere in between. They’re a different size, they have a different focus, they’re on a different trajectory. But I have brought together our festivals with government and our agencies through a strategic partnership, because I do think there are things that we, and by we, I’m talking about government and government agencies, can do to better support festivals.
So, to give you a couple of examples. When you’re running big events, this often means that you have to think about things like accommodation and transport as two really particular issues because it matters. How do people get to your Pitlochry? Alan Cumming has just taken over as a creative head of the Pitlochry Festival and it’s going to be amazing. And already there’s a lot of interest in that. If people don’t know where Pitlochry is, it’s north of Edinburgh. You can get a train there and you’d be there in less than an hour. And because it’s the main train line to Inverness, chances are you’ll be able to get a train to Pitlochry, see a show, and then come back to Edinburgh or Glasgow, if you’re staying in our two biggest cities. But that might not always be the case and so, I’m working with my government colleagues, transport in this case, where I had a meeting with my transport colleague, Fiona Hyslop, who’s a former culture secretary, so we both agree that we should be encouraging as much of this to work well together.
We’ve been good at running significant events, cultural, and sporting. We had the biggest cycling world championships in the history of cycling in Scotland. And we have to get all of these things right; the accommodation offering, the transportation system being joined up, our public authority, whether it’s policing and health and all of that. We just need to be aware that these are really big events and we need to be as supportive of them as we can be.
This isn’t a ‘get everything sorted from one day’ to the next. Accommodation, just as an example, when you have hundreds of thousands of people descending on Edinburgh for the Edinburgh festivals over a short number of weeks, that obviously jacks up the demand, jacks up the prices. And if you’re somebody who’s trying to break through, break into the performing arts, and you’ve managed to get yourself a slot to perform a show, finding somewhere to stay is not necessarily straightforward or certainly at an affordable price, if you’re not going to make a lot of money, because you’re just breaking through into the sector.
Kristyn Coutts: I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, because I think that’s one of the things that comes across a lot from our members, certainly who are performing in Edinburgh, is how prohibitive the costs are, especially for accommodation. What can be done to make that more affordable for people?
Angus Robertson: Well, this is a point that my good friend, Matt Forde, who you might know, the political comedian, gave evidence to a parliamentary inquiry not long ago, where he was highlighting this challenge about accommodation costs in Edinburgh. And he’s absolutely right. He’s absolutely right. The challenge there is what can one do? And there are a number of things that one has been trying to do in recent years to, for example, free up university and college halls of residence. That’s been one way of improving an offering. But there are other options as well. The berthing of large ships, large vessels, which have accommodation so that we can add to the number of beds in Edinburgh. There are other options that we will definitely be looking at for the years ahead, in terms of making sure that we have the best possible offering. We also need to be cognisant that there’s a balance to be struck in a city the size of Edinburgh, between the people who live there and the people who are visiting. And there’s a balance to be struck between wanting the best of history experience, but having the quality of life that you would expect as a resident and that’s not always straightforward. We need to work in partnership, the City of Edinburgh Council, the Scottish government, our agencies, to work out how we can best navigate all of that and it’s a moving challenge. I think accommodation and travel will continue to be the challenges that they have been but I do think that there’s more than we can do. That’s why I’m working with the festivals to work out what their preferred outcomes would be, and the ways of being able to deliver that, and working in partnership with others to make that happen.
The Edinburgh festivals are really important for the people who live in Edinburgh and the rest of Scotland, who incidentally make up the overwhelming audience of these festivals to those people who perform, the largest part of which are not from here. And importantly, which we shouldn’t lose sight of, is the fact that you basically have talent spotters from around the world who come to Edinburgh, because they’re looking for the next whoever, whoever, who’s going to be the next talented screenwriter or performer, or whatever, or book acts to perform in other festivals. People know that when they come here, that they’re going to see world-class artists performing, some at the beginning of their career, some of them well-established and will want them to be able to then go on and perform in festivals elsewhere. So, there’s a lot of reasons why they’re important. And you would expect the member of the Scottish Parliament for Edinburgh Central, so the person who represents most of the venues, most of the festivals, which is me, as well as being the culture secretary, I’m very invested in making sure that this works. Yes, for Edinburgh, yes, for the festivals here, but for the rest of Scotland, too.
There was a study by the British Equity Collecting Society suggesting that over 50% of actors come from a socially or economically privileged background. What more do you think can be done to encourage people from a diverse range of backgrounds to become performers, to tell their stories on stage and screen?
Angus Robertson: This has been a key focus for a number of people in the sector in Scotland, not least somebody like Brian Cox who is one of the great actors of our time internationally. He has spoken with great passion and conviction about the importance of repertory theatre. He started out, I think I’m right in saying, at the Dundee Rep. And he has talked about why that was such an important route for him, and why it should remain such an important route for other people breaking through into the performing arts in Scotland.
We’re seeing a number of our key venues being upgraded, The Citizens Theatre in Glasgow is an example. The King’s Theatre in Edinburgh is another example. So, venues have been safeguarded and with a view to them being successful venues for performers. And we have seen a shift this year, which is very, very groundbreaking.
Not many other countries have done this, but introduced multi-annual year funding to our major cultural organisations. So, rather than knowing that you’re okay for this year financially, that you’ll have support over a number of years. Nobody goes into the performing arts to spend their life filling out paperwork and trying to secure funding. One wants to get on with being creative and I want them to be able to get on with being creative and not having existential concerns about their venue or their performing company, or themselves as creative people. And so, we have this year introduced multi-annual year funding in Scotland and I think it’s absolutely groundbreaking. Now, does that guarantee that we have the widest opportunity for people of all backgrounds to be able to get into the performing arts? No, not of itself but what I do know is, and speaking to people in the culture sector in Scotland, there is a real priority for that to deliver just that. And so, whether these are venues or performing companies, or creative people working in the sector, making sure that one is doing everything that one can to promote accessibility.
Another dimension to this is fair work practises, because you’re talking about a sector where a lot of people are freelancers. And I say this as somebody who did work as a freelancer, so I know how precarious that can be at times, the Scottish government is working with partners to better understand what can we do to make sure that fair working practices are on the firmest of possible footings. I think so long as we have our eye on these things being profoundly important, then I think we will be making the necessary decisions because they are right, to make sure that everybody of talent, regardless of the background, is able to succeed in the culture sector.
I have to say, Scotland, if you look at some of the leading performers that we have, you are talking about people who have come from all kinds of backgrounds, including very challenging backgrounds. I think that’s one of the reasons why Scottish talent is so highly thought of is because we have people of all backgrounds who are tremendous performers, but we need to make sure that that continues. That’s why, going back to screen for a second, I think the introduction of screen studies in our primary and secondary schools, particularly in communities where access might traditionally be thought of as being very distant. But if you look at where Scotland’s film studios are now, in Leith, in Livingston, in Cumbernauld, and in Coatbridge, in Glasgow, a new project in Stirling, you’re talking about places where there are significant social and economic challenges and disadvantages. But if we manage to get this curriculum up and running in our schools, where there can be a connection with those studios and the talent that are working there, I think people’s eyes will open to the possibility of what might previously have been unimaginable. And that incidentally is true, not just for on screen talent or people on the production side behind the camera, but think of all the trades that are involved in screen. There are all kinds of opportunities that are going to be there as never before. So, I’m very keen that this screen education rollout that will be occurring, will have a particular focus on people of a more challenged social and economic background. And that this will help unlock their opportunities for being part of the screen and wider culture sector.
In a discussion with Lord Chris Smith, we talked about the idea of subsidising theatre in the same way as museums and galleries, to make it more accessible. Would you ever consider offering the same for theatres and performance venues in Scotland?
Angus Robertson: The first thing is our museums and galleries are free in Scotland and continue to be so under an SNP government. In terms of access to theatre, I think that’s one of the things that our venues and our festivals have been very mindful of, is making sure there has been maximum access for kids of all backgrounds. And that’s involved theatre and performing arts.
The likes of the Edinburgh Book Festival has had a very strong track record of widest access for people of all backgrounds. If there are suggestions that people have of what more can happen or what less should happen, or should be done differently, I’m totally open to all that. And where there are colleagues in other jurisdictions who’ve been doing really interesting projects or really interesting initiatives, I’m happy to learn. I had a recent interministerial meeting with my UK/English culture colleague, Lisa Nandy, and colleagues from Wales and Northern Ireland. One of the things that I was keen to press on and everybody was in agreement about this, was that it would be a good thing for us to be able to compare notes on who’s doing things that are making a big difference. Because there’s no monopoly in common sense or indeed good interventions that are supportive of culture and the arts. If there are things that my colleagues are doing in England, and Wales, and in Northern Ireland, and indeed further afield, I’m really keen that we can learn from others, and if they are transferable, then let’s copy remorselessly. If there are things that we can show the way for others, and the multi-annual year funding example was one that I mentioned before, that doesn’t exist in the same way in England. Maybe that’s something that Lisa Nandy might want to think about, because I’m sure the culture sector in England would be very welcoming of that.
There’s a lot of hope that the EU-UK Summit, which took place in May, could see the removal of some barriers when it comes to UK performers performing in the EU. Can you talk a little bit about what your aspirations could be for that new dialogue?
Angus Robertson: Well, I mean, unlike politicians elsewhere in the UK, in Scotland, we don’t find it difficult to say that Brexit was a total disaster and we should rejoin the European Union. That’s the position of the Scottish government. The easiest way to end the self-harm is rejoin. So, everything else is sticking plasters and making things a little bit less bad. And this new UK-EU agreement will make things less bad, but they won’t restore the same advantages that we had being part of the European Union.
I am supportive of us getting back into a number of European cooperation frameworks, whether that’s in research. So, that was a Horizon Education access, Erasmus+, sadly not Creative Europe. The UK government didn’t negotiate that and I will continue to press on them that I think the UK should rejoin Creative Europe. This is a network, it brings together the culture sector right across Europe and I think 14 other countries outside the EU to be a part of all of that. And I think things that bring our creative sectors together has to be a good thing.
In terms of the wider agreement, what might come out of it? Well, youth mobility matters. So, young people being able to live, work in other European countries, and that includes people in the European continent coming to the UK and Scotland. I think that is going to be important and the details are still going to be worked out. I would encourage both UK and EU decision makers to be as ambitious as possible, because we owe it to the next generation of talent that’s coming through who want to develop their skills, who want to tour, who want to earn their spurs playing in front of different audiences, but find it immensely frustrating and difficult to do so post-Brexit and unless there’s certain changes are made on that front, it’s not going to improve. So, let’s hope that the agreement and principle will head in the right direction. We’ve still got to wait for the detail. And let’s make sure when the opportunity comes to grab the opportunities of the likes of Creative Europe, then we should be doing that with both hands.
What are your priorities for the next 12 months in your role?
Angus Robertson: When it comes to the creative sector, well, a number of years ago, I secured a commitment that this SNP government that I’m a part of will raise cultural and arts funding by £100million a year. We’re over 50% of the way there and we are continuing on that journey. It’s what’s helped us deliver multi-annual year funding, but there are other commitments that will flow from this that I think are profound for the Scottish culture and arts sector. So, a really key priority for me is to deliver on the promises that we have made to the culture and arts sector. I think we all agree that we need to get beyond the financial distress that the sector was in not that long ago.
Secondly, I think where the government can help… because culture does culture, governments don’t do culture. We can help, we can support, but to that end, where there has been failure and the screen sector is an area where, for reasons we’ve already discussed, has not been as developed as it could be and should be, where the government can intervene to help, I’m very focused on making that happen. So, any opportunity that I get, like this, I will turn up and bang the drum to say, Scotland’s doing great things. Please think about coming, and working, and doing projects in Scotland.
And then there are the other opportunities that we have. I’m also responsible for external affairs, so Scotland’s relations beyond Scotland and I think culture plays a really important part in how we promote Scotland. I chair an initiative called Brand Scotland that brings together our key agencies, our tourism agency, our economic development agency, our universities, food and drink, and so on. That we can take the opportunity of our international work to promote Scotland, and culture is a very significant part of that. So, these are constants for me.
I wouldn’t be telling the whole story if I didn’t mention the fact that we have Scottish Parliament elections next year and I’m the campaign director for the SNP for Scotland’s governing party. So, I’m very focused on making sure that we win, what I think I’m right in saying would be, our fifth election in a row. Never take anything for granted! We have a PR [proportional representation] electoral system in Scotland so, absolutely, every vote counts and people are represented proportionately. I think in culture and the arts in particular, we have a very strong record where we have delivered. Where we’ve listened to things that we should do more of, less of, differently, of working in partnership with the sector. And I think the sector would wish us to continue to give the very high priority that we, that I give as the Cabinet Secretary for Culture, but also First Minister John Swinney [gives], to supporting the culture and arts sector.
We are a pro-Scottish government, so we are pro-Scottish culture. And not in a narrow sense, if that were to be such a thing, but in a very open and outward looking way.
There’s a feeling that performers feel they’re often overlooked when policy is discussed. What do you think performers could do to make sure their voices are heard?
Angus Robertson: Well, I really hope that they wouldn’t feel that that was the case in Scotland. One of the advantages of being in a smaller country, particularly in an age where we can do as much as we can with online meetings and so on, is to hold regular meetings about what we’re doing.
One of the things that we’re doing at the moment is reviewing Creative Scotland, our national cultural agency, because we are at a point of inflection where we’ve introduced multi-annual year funding. When I say ‘we’, I mean they have done it and I take my hat off to them. They have done a tremendous job there. But now that we’ve got that new system in place, what can we think about in relation to Creative Scotland? So, that’s why there’s a review. It’s independent of the government, so I have no idea where it’s going to end up. What I do know is that the review has been very keen and very open to hearing the views from the sector to help shape the next iteration of what Creative Scotland does, and where the relative balance and focus of its efforts should be. I think that’s a really good example of being inclusive, of listening to people and you know enough about Edinburgh and Scotland personally to know you bump into people all the time. So, the idea that you’re not having encouragement about any number of things is for the birds and I think that’s a good thing. I’m working very hard and I know my colleagues are working very hard to make sure that we’re doing everything that we can to help the Scottish culture and arts sector succeed.
What’s the last thing you saw on stage or on screen that you really enjoyed and that you recommend others seek out?
Angus Robertson: My goodness. Well, I’ve got a confession to make with a four and a six-year-old the things that I tend to see on the stage have been fantastic, I have to say, being able to see what’s on offer for children. And there is a Children’s Festival, as well as an Edinburgh International Festival and Edinburgh Festival Fringe. So, if I see anything more regularly than other things, it often involves things for children and I think it’s really important that we do everything and anything to make culture accessible.
To answer your question, the last thing I was at was not a stage per se, but it was at the National Museum of Scotland in Chambers Street that was hosting the Children’s Festival with events in the main atrium and the rest of the museum. It was wondrous. I mean, literally wondrous, just watching all of these children seeing the performances that were taking place in the middle of a museum, and also everything that we know is amazing in the National Museum of Scotland.
With the festivals upon us now, I try to see a bit of everything, including performances by next generation and breakthrough artists who are supported by a thing called the Expo Fund, which is Scottish government funds helping new people find their feet in the festivals and help them reach an audience, and maybe some of those talent spotters who might then pick them up and take them onto the next stage in their career. But I look forward to seeing a bit of everything during the Edinburgh festivals. And no doubt, I will enjoy going along to something that is very focused on children. And then who knows, I might even go and see my friend Matt Forde, take the mickey out of politicians.
Kristyn Coutts: Front row seat to get the mickey taken out of you, right? Well, thank you very much for your time, Angus. I really appreciate it.
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