What you need to know before applying for drama school, including different types of training, advice for auditioning and the importance of inclusivity.
In the first episode of this two-part instalment of The Spotlight Podcast, we talk to Charleen Qwaye (Co-founder and Director of Training, Fourth Monkey), Stewart Nicholls (BA Musical Theatre Programme Leader, Guildford School of Acting), Geoff Brumlik (Senior Acting Tutor, Bristol Old Vic Theatre School), Helen Mackay (Lecturer in Professional Practise, Royal Conservatoire of Scotland) and Christabel Clark (Acting Tutor/Program Coordinator, MetFilm School) about how you can prepare for and get into drama school.
We discuss the difference between conservatoire training and studying at university and the benefits of these styles, how you can know if drama school is the right path for you, and what can be done to ensure there’s more inclusivity in drama schools. Each of our guests offers their advice for getting into drama school, and alternative routes for breaking into the industry if you’re unsuccessful.
From left to right: Charleen Qwaye (Headshot credit: Kim Hardy), Stewart Nicholls (Headshot credit: GSA), Geoffrey Brumlik (Headshot credit: Ian Jackson), Helen Mackay (Headshot credit: Robbie McFadzean), Christabel Clark (Headshot credit: Tony Blake)
A 72-minute listen or a full transcript of the episode can be found below:
Episode Transcript:
Ilayda:
Hi, welcome to the Spotlight podcast. My name is Ilayda and today’s episode is a two-parter about all things drama school. It’s a two-parter because we have an incredible suite of guests for this topic who all had really interesting, insightful things to say about everything to do with drama school. This month we’ve got Charleen Qwaye.
Charleen Qwaye:
Hello, my name is Charleen Qwaye. I’m the co-founder, director of training and deputy CEO of Fourth Monkey.
Ilayda:
We’ve got Stewart Nicholls.
Stewart Nicholls:
Hello there. I’m Stewart Nicholls. I’m a senior lecturer and I’m the programme leader of the BA Musical Theatre course at the Guildford School of Acting.
Ilayda:
We’ve got Geoff Brumlik.
Geoff Brumlik:
Hi, my name is Geoff Brumlik. I’m head of the master’s acting programme and a senior acting tutor at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School.
Ilayda:
And we’ve got Helen Mackay.
Helen Mackay:
Hello, my name is Helen Mackay. I am the lecturer and professional practise on the BA Acting course at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland in Glasgow.
Ilayda:
And we’ve also got Christabel Clark.
Christabel Clark:
Hello, I’m Christabel Clark. I’m a tutor and programme coordinator at the MetFilm School in London.
Ilayda:
Well, thank you so much all for joining me. I’m really excited to get stuck in and have lots of juicy discussions about all things drama school. We obviously as a Spotlight membership, we’ve got a lot of people who have been to drama school. We’ve got a lot of young performers who are thinking of going to drama school. Hopefully, this chat we will be able to answer a bunch of questions about the nature of drama school and whether it’s right for someone or how they can consider which schools to choose, et cetera. We’ll go in straight from the top and just go in with the big daddy question, which is how can actors know if drama school is the right path for them? If anybody has any thoughts, please do. I don’t know, press your buzzer and/or just speak up.
Stewart Nicholls:
I think it’s like anything nowadays, we tend to go to university for things. In the old days you’d do rep and that’s how you’d learn how to be an actor. Rep isn’t there anymore. Really, if you want to train to have a decent training in musical theatre or acting or production, then drama school or university drama courses is the only way to really go unless you’re going to be lucky enough to get the ground upwards into production, which is very rare.
Ilayda:
You are talking about obviously going to university or specifically drama school. Does anybody want to touch on the differences between the two?
Geoff Brumlik:
In terms of conservatoire drama training, I can speak in terms of… That’s what we do at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School. It is very much an intensive… The conservatoire tradition is very much training practically, so it’s a lot of doing. There are virtually no academic courses in terms of… We do a bit of theatre history, that sort of thing, but it’s very much training your instrument by doing it, voice work, movement work, acting work, and then doing work on projects. It is really steeping yourself for a period of either two or three years in the actual activity and getting better by trying and failing and by trying and succeeding, I think.
Ilayda:
There’s lots of nodding from the whole guest panel going on to the listeners who can’t see the guest panel that I can. Christabel, you were just going to talk about what the difference between that and university training might be.
Christabel Clark:
Yeah, I think in terms of university, there’s more of a variation between institutions than there is. The conservatoire training tends to be equally intensive and practical throughout no matter which school you might be looking at. Whereas I think with a university it’s really important to deeply look into what the course is that’s being offered and how many practical hours the institution is offering as well. I work at MetFilm School, they try and do their BA courses as practically as possible. But there will still be an element of academic writing, so forth, essays in terms of submissions. Also, there just is fewer contact hours in terms of it being…. That really is, I think, the biggest difference between university and conservatoire training. You might be looking at 16 hours a week as being actually quite a lot of contact hours for a university to give. It may be even less than that you might be looking at. I think that’s probably the main difference.
Stewart Nicholls:
Hello, it’s Stewart here from GSA. Yeah, absolutely couldn’t agree more. Really, that conservatoire training is hours in the end and I think most conservatoires offer about 28 to 30 hours a week training. I think my colleagues are nodding. At GSA, we’re actually on a university campus, so we are a bit unusual in that we are a conservatoire training, but we actually are on a university campus. We have, of course, residence and we have all the things that a university offers as well. We’re a bit rare there, but what that does mean is that I do see my colleagues in other departments teaching these 16 hours. It’s just a different way of teaching and I don’t know if anybody here in the podcast is perhaps an external examiner for other universities, but I am for another musical theatre course at a university and it always… I come from a conservatoire background. It really surprises me when I see how little hours they do, but they’re still doing great training.
Charleen Qwaye:
I think I’d just like to jump on the back of that and just say from Fourth Monkey’s perspective, which is obviously where I’m coming from, is it really has to start from the person. The first question has to be what do you want? And then you can go and find it, because what’s lovely is we’ve got different perspectives. Obviously Stewart’s just given his. Christabel’s done the same. Geoffrey the same. And I’m going to do my spiel as well, my little bit and give you my offering. Ultimately, the first question is always, the student, what do they want? Because hours aren’t just hours, training isn’t just training and the individual decides what is right for them. I think when we’re talking about drama school, it’s got to be the starting point. It’s got to be, what do you want? Where do you want to be? Investigate that thoroughly because there’s so much difference, which is wonderful in all the training journeys.
And if you decide not to train, again, understand why you don’t want to train and wholeheartedly follow that. Big advocates are talking about trusting yourself and following your impulses and following your instinct. But I also think, go and try. If there’s an open day, go to that. If there is a workshop, go to that. If there is a podcast, go listen to the podcast. You know what I mean? Because acting is so about the person, the only way to do it’s to get stuck in. The only way to do it is to go through the nooks and crannies. I think it’s got to come from the person and, yes, we can tell you everything about the courses, but you have to try it, you have to jump in. And then trust yourself once you’ve done that.
Stewart Nicholls:
I think Charleen’s absolutely right in that open days are really, really important, workshops, audition workshops. Also, something we always say is that the students are auditioning us as much as we are auditioning them. There are so many great courses around, but actually do you like the people that are taking your audition day? What do you feel about the building? You can tell a lot.
Helen Mackay:
I think that’s such a great point just to jump in on that. That was something that we really discovered through COVID and especially the RCS being in Glasgow as well is that connection thing that you can look on a website. We tried to do an open day remotely. Actually, this year what’s really exciting is that auditions are happening in person again. People are coming in and they’re meeting the students. They’re getting to chat to the students in the corridor, “What’s the training like?” Because I think it can be really difficult sometimes to know what you are looking for. You go, “I want to do this. I’ve got the passion. I’ve got the bare bones of it, but actually I’m not quite sure what I want.” And I think you’re absolutely right, Stewart. I think the great thing about the audition process is finding that through the audition process and we were finding through self-tapes that it was causing a bit of a block. Having people in the building right now auditioning and auditioning us as well as us auditioning them is really brilliant, and learning from that experience…
Charleen Qwaye:
Is vital.
Ilayda:
Yeah, I went to drama school myself and obviously went through the process of a number of different auditions and whatnot. I definitely found that sometimes when I step my feet onto a campus at various places, I was like, “Oh, this isn’t right for me.” I can just feel it in my bones. And then others, I came alive and I was like, “Oh, I see myself here and I can feel the magic of this space more than I can in others.” I think it does make a difference to actually be there in person trying before you buy, as it were.
Charleen Qwaye:
And that’s how you know, and that’s where you trust yourself to go, “Actually, no, I don’t doubt that feeling. Actually, I don’t doubt that person that I spoke to. Actually, I asked that question, which maybe I was a little bit scared to ask, but because the audition days being led by…” I don’t know current students or alumni, what have you. You can ask those questions that, with all due respect, I might not know because I’m not a student at this organisation. I think that the vital thing is about… Yes, you are absolutely right, Stewart, about auditioning us as well as we audition them, but I think sometimes it’s very easy to forget that power switch, particularly when you are young and starting out.
You don’t necessarily believe and trust that you have that power and sometimes you get caught up in what you should do rather than what you really feel to do. That’s all part of the flourishing of being an individual and being a wonderful human being. It’s a very, very real journey. It’s part the beginning, if you like, of such a discovery of who you are and what you’re going to be.
Stewart Nicholls:
I agree, and I think that what Helen was saying just now is that, actually, the students, the applicants talking to the current students, whether that be on the audition day or coming to see shows or coming to open days, I always find that it’s our students that set our course because of the way they are more than we do in a way and alumni.
Ilayda:
Yeah, that was what did it for me. And actually, just bringing this background to the larger question of how can actors know if drama school is the right path for them? I suppose it comes back down to that… I suppose, that conceptual philosophical idea of what do you hope to gain out of going to drama school that you can’t gain from elsewhere real-life experience or university education or… I don’t know. And I know that, Stewart, you talked about the idea of rep theatre doesn’t exist anymore, but are there any other things that someone can help guide them in knowing the answer to that question?
Stewart Nicholls:
I’m a big advocate for foundation courses at drama schools because they can do a one-year course and actually decide whether they feel that this is the right place or the right kind of training for them. Just the extra year when you’re 17, 18, can make a big difference to you as a person. For example, we had a student that did a foundation course at GSA actually last year and auditioned for the BA and we accepted them on it because they were very, very good. And then they thought, “No, actually theatre isn’t for me.” And they’ve gone and done a law degree instead. Actually, by doing that one-year foundation has made a big, big difference for them, even though they had the talent.
Christabel Clark:
I’m also a big advocate for people looking at their lifestyle as it is and what their situation is and not necessarily feeling that there’s only one path that they have to do drama school in order to be an actor. It’s a hugely expensive undertaking and there are alternatives now that if you need to have a job at the same time, that’s a massive deal to take into account before you start your training. If you need to look into a programme that takes place in the evenings or the weekends, there are options now to do that that there didn’t used to be. As others have said, it’s about looking at the big picture. What you want to get from the training? What your situation is now? Even just living in the world all adds to your experience as a human being and therefore as an actor, so you don’t necessarily have to feel that you need to have all this money and pay all this money to do training a certain way. I think now you can find options that fit with your circumstances.
Stewart Nicholls:
I also think it depends what you want to train in, because if you want to train in the musical theatre, which is the work that I do at GSA, is you do need those hours for your dancing and your singing, so that actually when you leave after three years, you’ve got a healthy enough education and you know your body well enough to be able to sustain a career. Whereas, I don’t know, perhaps other people can say that, I don’t know whether that’s so much the same for TV acting or for straight theatre acting. I don’t know.
Helen Mackay:
Yeah, I think that’s a brilliant point. I think especially with TV acting now and so many students and graduates going on now, I would say, to have maybe their first jobs in TV whereas maybe 10, 20 years ago it was much more maybe theatre based. I do know quite a few actors who have been maybe lucky enough to audition for a casting director and got a role and then been taken under the wing and then got another role, and they’re very much learning on the job, which, I think, for film and TV is slightly different. I think for theatre acting, it is your vocal strength, all of those things that they need to be worked on. You need to have that practise. But certainly I know quite a few actors who have gone into film and TV and they really learn on the job and become masters of it. It’s incredible.
Ilayda:
That’s great. This really nicely leads into the next question, which we’ve already sort of touched upon anyway, as we talked about the difference between conservatoire training and a university course. There are obviously lots of different training styles, whether that be BA Acting versus BA Musical Theatre versus film and TV acting, et cetera, et cetera. I was wondering if each of you could tell the listeners about the benefits of the style of training that your school teaches or users or particularly champions. If we could just hear from each of you about that element and we’ll start with Charleen.
Charleen Qwaye:
Yeah, the training at Fourth Monkey is very student based. The training that we have here requires the individual. The training celebrates the individual rather than making or expecting the student to celebrate the training. And I think that’s a massive thing that makes us different, if you like. I think the celebration of international practise and global perspectives, whether that be our ensemble company or ensemble, that’s how we train. And I just want to be really clear that ensemble doesn’t mean that just a group of people just mould into the background, but rather it’s the individual that powers the ensemble, and things like the practises that we celebrate.
I know there’s a conversation about decolonization of the curriculum, et cetera. It’s something that’s a foundational part of who we are and how we are. Obviously our name is Fourth Monkey. It’s from the Japanese fable. I think those are the two biggest things if you like, but also this idea of access to the arts and the makeup of our ensemble is that of as vast a community as possible. That is definitely something that we celebrate here at Fourth Monkey. Those are the pillars upon which the training stands, but also the Fourth Monkey community stands. That’s the difference between, I guess, what we do and maybe other drama schools or other ways of training and options of training.
Helen Mackay:
Yeah, I’m just going to pick up a lovely word Charleen used there about community. I think that is something at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland did is really wonderful that within the building we have a film and TV course, we have a ballet course, we have an opera course, production, and there is the chance through all three years to work together, which, I think, is really special that at the start of terms in first year we do a thing called learning to collaborate. Basically, you’re putting groups with people from every discipline to work together and it’s about building that community so that when you go out into the industry, those are your peers. They’re the people that you’re going to be working with. I think that’s really special doing in second year, have a module where the film and TV students write short films and then the actors perform in them.
Then when you move into third year on the productions, all the productions are stage-managed and crewed by students as well. I think really building that sense of community is at the heart of what we do, as well as such a practical, in first year you’ve got your movement, your voice, your acting, and then when we move into second year now, we look a lot about creating your own work and the artists that you want to be and giving the students the tools to be able to do that as well as to be able to set up their own theatre companies, to be able to be the future, I guess, of the industry that they’re moving into. Yeah, I would say for me they’re the main points that are really different for us. I train there myself. I’m a part-time member of staff, and I’m a working actor as well.
Just recently I have a voiceover job that I do quite regular and that’s with someone who employs me was someone who was on the film and TV course when I was there. They’re the lovely links that you continue with, I think, when you move out into the industry about going, “We want to learn to do these things, but also we want to work and we want to be able to have a career and how do we start to do that?” And by building these friendships and these really strong bonds right from the start, I think that really helps.
Ilayda:
That’s lovely. Geoffrey, let’s go to you next.
Geoff Brumlik:
Yeah, I firstly could not support enough that idea of community. I think that’s part of learning who you are and also it’s the gift that keeps on giving beyond school because you’re leaving then with a whole bunch of people in the industry that are at your same point of life and that just cannot be understated as a useful thing. I have in spite of what I sound, I have been in the UK for some time now. I did come in for internationals, I run the MFA programme originally. And just to speak a bit of the difference I think in styles between North American and UK, I think one of the things to look at is some schools are looking at building you as who you are as an actor and saying this is who you are. And I think we live in a world now that’s far more inclusive in terms of saying, “This is the actor that you are and you need to become the best version of that possible.”
I think there are other schools that have a slightly bigger skew towards, “This is what we think a great actor is like. We think we want to build you in this model.” Neither of those are right or wrong, but they are a profound difference in your experience at the school. I think it’s a real generalisation to say, but in North America there’s in BA programmes, a much larger focus on the idea of tearing you down as part of the process of getting rid of everything that they see as a negative part of you and then building you up over the two years. That is very different from, and it’s why I teach in this country, is it’s more predominantly, I think, here building on you, and it being an experience about you figuring out who you are through the process, not, “You have to come in and just make a beeline to being this sort of a performer.”
I think it’s about the respect and the relationship in terms of style between the actors and school that, as someone said, “Does it revolve around you or are you being instructed as to where you should be marching along the way?”
Ilayda:
Yeah, I can definitely see that. Stewart, let’s go to you.
Stewart Nicholls:
Hello again. Yeah, GSA, when we have a number of courses there, BA and MA and MFA courses, I think one of the things GSA is great at, again, community, we’ve all said that very much so. I think it’s the individual within that community is the way that we think and that we have quite small cohorts. We actually know our students really, really well. The BA Acting course, they have two cohorts, about 36 to 38 students in total. Whereas in MT, we only have one cohort of 22 students. I know my students really, really well, which is a lovely thing to have really. I to think that we’re not like a cookie-cutter school. Do you know what I mean? That sounds a bit rude, but we don’t just want to chuck out people into the ensemble.
We do think of people as individuals, but working together as an ensemble, as a team. We don’t teach in one specific style with one specific practitioner. If you’ve got 22 students, 21 might work really well with a still singing, but what about that 22nd person that might need another way of learning singing? That’s just singing for example. I also think the other thing about GSA is we have a cafeteria right in the centre of our building. We’ve got this massive central hub and you always know when everyone’s birthdays are because everyone sings happy birthday in the middle of it all, which is great. And the bottomline is that I suppose all of us here, we are going to benchmark against the industry, so we’re really watching what the industry’s doing and trying to be forward-thinking so that we amend our courses when we can to reflect what’s going on in the industry at the moment.
Ilayda:
Yeah, also never underestimate the power of a social coffee spot.
Stewart Nicholls:
Oh yeah.
Ilayda:
Christopher, if you want to say anything on that.
Christabel Clark:
Yeah, sorry, I’ve got this lovely image now of GSA, it’s like a real life version of the set of Glee and it’s just so nice.
Stewart Nicholls:
Oh no.
Christabel Clark:
So great. I want to go. Yeah, the MetFilm School, we started off as a film school. It’s quite an established film school where you go and train to use a camera, to be any role of the crew on a film set. The acting BA, they run an MA now as well is relatively new. The acting BA has been going for five years and the MA just started this year. The idea with that is to train people in screen acting as well as film production, so you are leaving with a degree in both screen acting specifically and film production. I think that really comes from the idea now that so many people are multi-hyphenates in the industry. So many people are writing and producing and directing and acting. That really seems to be the way the industry is going as well as the need for the statistics of actors being out of work, sad, but true and it’s what do you do in your downtime? What do you do between those roles?
Yeah, I think at Met we really had this feeling of giving people an all-round training. The acting training focuses on a variety of practitioners. There’s no one three method. The idea is to give the student a selection of tools and they choose the method and the practitioner that resounds with them the most. They work on all the usual things, voice, movement, acting practitioners, and also they work on how to use a camera. How to light. How to be a gaffer. Do sound, writing, directing. Within the course they’ll alternate modules between pure acting and film production where within the cohort they will write direct film, everything, start to finish their own production. The idea is then they also finish the course with a bunch of footage. They’ve been on set. They’ve done it in a safer environment. They know what they’re getting into. That’s the idea.
Ilayda:
Yeah, I love that. There’s so much talk and common theme coming out through what everybody’s saying about the multi-hyphenate nature of the industry now and also the importance of community. I’ve got two follow-up questions related to that. The first is, I suppose, what can be done to ensure that there is more inclusivity in terms of diversity, whether that be socioeconomic background or ethnic background or even people with disabilities for drama schools in the landscape right now to help foster a stronger community for everybody involved?
Helen Mackay:
Yeah, I’d love to pick up on that. Actually, at RCS within the building, the BA Acting course work quite closely with two other departments. One is called WACI, which is Widening Access to the Creative Industries and one is called transitions. Basically, both of those departments work either in schools or people who have left school. It’s not age-dependent, but people who maybe haven’t had access to drama at school, haven’t had access to community theatre, and not just theatre, for us it would be right across film and TV and ballet, musical theatre, everything. Giving them the opportunity to take short courses to be involved in productions. To make them feel like the building is theirs, is accessible to them. We work really closely with those departments. A lot of the staff who work on the BA Acting course also work for that department and we get to know people and they go out into community groups and schools. Mainly in Scotland at the moment, but probably will branch out as it grows.
I think there’s a thing that maybe people look at certain buildings or certain places and go, “Gosh, I’m not sure if I can go there. Is that for me?” What those departments really do is try to break those barriers down and go, “Yes, this is absolutely for you. Come and try it.” Come and meet the tutors so that when they’re auditioning they’ve maybe had some addition prep courses, they’ve met some of the tutors. I’m from the Highlands of Scotland, I’m from the very North of Scotland. It’s a really small town and there was nothing like that when I was training. I was like, “Gosh, can I go to Glasgow? Can I go and train there?”
Then 10 years later my sister was in the same boat and transitions was a thing there. Basically, they paid for her to come down to Glasgow once a month. She got all the courses. She got all that behind her and then auditioned and got into the school. That’s just one example of it. But I think working really closely with groups like that for us is really important, and an open door as well. We’re always trying to find new ways. There’s always more to do, but we’re always trying to find new ways to reach people who maybe don’t know about us or don’t feel that we are accessible to them and to go, “You really are. Come and join us.”
Ilayda:
That’s great. Anybody else want to jump in on that? Charleen, let’s go with you and then we’ll go to Stewart.
Charleen Qwaye:
I think it’s so individual and it tends to be in line with the culture of the organisation that you’re talking about. For us, our culture is very like, “Everything we do, we learn through doing. It’s hands-on. You jump into things.” In a positive way, let me just add. But I think it’s about… For us, we see it very much as our responsibility to go to, because the things that you spoke about, Christabel, with respect to societal issues and social issues and cultural differences, which are so wonderful, but they all have their wonderful quirks. But there are some things that you have to try to work with in a different way. When I say work with, I mean go to. For us at Fourth Monkey, outreach is a huge part of what we do. We see as our responsibility to go, to find, to make sure access is more than just a word, but rather than the culture of how we do things.
It’s not an add-on. It’s not a side thing, but rather it’s everything that we are and that’s, I think, you cannot rest or we cannot and we should not rest on our laurels in finding those nooks crannies ways in. Try and see, speaking to people and understand, “Okay, this is a demographic that isn’t really represented. How do we get to you? What would work? What do you think? Tell us.” And you have to listen to that and then you have to respond to that. I think there’s quite a lot of responsibility that we have that we really must see as a vital part of how we work. Obviously, I’m a woman of colour that came from Essex. I didn’t see that, but if it came to me… It didn’t come to me when I was about to train and that’s why I’m so passionate about it now is that it has to come, because even as the world gets… Well, we know where we are in the world now, today.
You have to go further. You have to do better. You have to do more. I think, like I say, it’s incumbent on all of us, but being visible, our outreach programme is prolific. We do many many outreach workshops, but also our ensemble, that’s a very unique for thing for Fourth Monkey. Our ensemble travel around doing all of these things so that you can see this excellence. If you can’t get to London, you can’t make it or you haven’t got access to great internet services or you are in the middle of the Highlands or wherever it is. Distance is a real thing. But also finance is a real thing.
We don’t charge fruition fees we haven’t done. These things are barriers that we must, as organisations, overcome. Otherwise, these words become soundbites and we don’t get further going in the progress of what we’re trying to achieve because we’re all trying to achieve the same thing. But just the commitment, that regular commitment and genuine ability to be honest and go, “Okay, is it working? No, it’s not. Okay, cool. Let’s make it work. Let’s try something else. And not be worried about that or fearful or tepid.” Just jump in. Do it. Try. If it works, brilliant. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. No problem. Nothing lost, everything gained and so much learned.
Ilayda:
I think that’s often the thing that I hear frequently over and over again in the industry is that it’s worth trying something. And if you get it wrong, then you can always rejig, reshape and then try again. But to hold back for fear of getting it wrong is in and of itself a-
Charleen Qwaye:
A problem.
Ilayda:
Yeah, it’s a problem. Stewart, you were about to say something.
Stewart Nicholls:
I think there’s two things here actually. One is being a student on the course and one is being an applicant for the course. I think if you are an applicant, the more you can tell us beforehand, the easier. For example we do for musical theatre, and for acting we do first-round auditions online because we have so many applicants. And as Charleen said, money. That’s a lot cheaper than it is to do an in-person one if you don’t get through to recall. If there’s something on that you can’t do as part of a dance exercise or what have you, then you just need to let us know and we’ll adjust accordingly. That’s a audition stage. Then if you actually become a student at GSA, we are lucky. We have the most amazing facilities that the university can offer us.
Anything, it doesn’t matter what there is, we’ll find a way to support you. That sounds like a platitude. It’s not. It’s true. We can always signpost everyone where they need to go for help. Also, we have so much on site as well and we would adjust any kind of assessment or anything for you so that you can train. Because in the end, if you’ve got the talent and we think you’re trainable, then we can train you. On top of that, we have our own dedicated EDI manager actually in the building as well, who’s there as a support for students and for staff as well, which is amazing. We are really lucky that we have all those facilities and we’ve had a lot of students over the years that have had perhaps a disability or something, and then we’ve been able to actually work with them so that they can go out there and work.
Charleen Qwaye:
Can I just add little something to that? Hopefully lots of prospective applicants and students are listening because I think you just touched on something there, Stewart, which is about being able to speak up and say I need this or I need that. There can sometimes be a stigma about saying I need to do things a little differently. I guess I want to just encourage that because at Fourth Monkey, it’s through conversation, there are so many times where people use labels and actually I’m not sure how much labels are helpful to people because sometimes you can do more than you think you can. Sometimes a label says that you should be doing this, this, this, this is right for you, but it’s not. And sometimes having a conversation can really open doors and can really open perspectives and can really open minds and really can unleash the most wonderful talent.
I would say that if anybody has any needs that would really help them thrive because we all want you to get a place. We all are in the business of training people who are fantastically talented and have the drive and the passion because you’re going to need that in this industry. Do you know what I mean? Don’t be afraid to say, “Actually, would it be possible to do this?” I know at Fourth Monkey the way that we do things is we always give options. Always, always options. People are sometimes scared to speak up, but don’t be scared, speak up. Speak up, we all want you to do well. We all want you to thrive. And sometimes the tiniest adjustment and even maybe doing things differently in the work period, it means that actually people that don’t speak up or can’t speak up for whatever reason, just to have a bit more confidence because they can feel like they’re succeeding. Who doesn’t thrive when you feel like you’re succeeding and doing great stuff. Just speak up is what I’m saying, and don’t feel any way about it. Be who you are loudly and beautifully and brilliantly.
Stewart Nicholls:
I couldn’t agree more, because what we can’t do at any of these dramas is we can’t mind read. We can’t help people unless they want to be helped and we’ll do all we can to help people.
Ilayda:
Yeah, and I was just going to say that… I don’t want to say how long ago I went to drama school. But many, many years ago when I went to drama school, I was too scared to say, actually I’m quite dyspraxic and I might need to go through a few things for this routine to understand… I need to take more time learning this thing so that I can give it the best, because the cultural landscape at the time just wasn’t having these conversations and it wasn’t encouraging people to speak up and to be themselves in the same way. It’s really heartening to hear people in your position saying such things because it shows how far the landscape has come and how much change has occurred in the time since I was auditioning at drama school versus now.
That’s really good. I’m going to move on to the next question. This is a lovely one that I think a lot of the young former listeners will really enjoy hearing the answer to, which is what advice do you have for actors hoping to get into drama school? Is there anything that they can do to prepare both mentally and practically or anything on top of that? What we’ll do is we’ll go through each person again because I feel like everyone will have their own hot take on this and we’ll go in reverse order from what we did last time. Christabel, if we could start with you.
Christabel Clark:
Oh, sure. Yeah, there’s a magic pill and if you buy that-
Ilayda:
I’ve not given you much time to prepare your answer, sorry.
Christabel Clark:
Yeah no, I’m sorry. There’s no magic pill. There’s no magic potion. The biggest piece of advice I would give is to be yourself 100%. Not a polite version of yourself that you think people want to meet. Not the version of yourself that you think will get into this drama school, but to just be unapologetically you through and through to the highest dose you can be of you. Because ultimately when you are meeting people, when you are going to these places, when you are in drama school auditions, you want to be in a learning environment that echoes you and what your needs are.
And if you are not truthful or honouring your own needs or who you are when you go into the audition process, then you might end up getting matched up to the wrong school. You might end up appearing a certain way that isn’t really you and then you end up in an environment that doesn’t suit you. Nobody likes being told no. Nobody likes rejection. But actually if you’ve gone to an audition, you’ve been 100% yourself, you’ve really, really honoured who you are and shown who you are through your work and through meeting the people in the interview as well. And then you don’t get taken on by that school. It’s not a rejection of you, it’s a fit that wasn’t right for you and there will be a fit that is right for you. You just need to trust that you will find that.
Ilayda:
Love that. Thank you. Stewart, let’s go to you.
Stewart Nicholls:
Same really, in that be the best you can be. That’s all we can ask. I think for auditions, if it’s a two-round audition, you’ve got a first round, which for us is online. For acting, speeches, for musical theatre you’re asked to sing songs of your own choice. It’s really important that you’re picking stuff that you’re not trying to show off. You’re not trying to push your boundaries, you’re doing something that you can know you can do really, really well and suits you, but equally nothing the other end. Nothing that’s so simple that we can’t tell enough from it. You need to pitch it right in the middle. Also, we are not looking for anything that’s overly unusual, but at the same time, I can tell you now that they have to do a contemporary and legit song.
If I hear another song from Anything Goes, I may scream because everyone’s just singing the same songs. There are other shows than Anything Goes. It’s like thinking, “What can I do that’s really going to show me off well?” That’s the important thing. Then if you’re coming to a recall, on the whole a recall day’s going to be a long day. You’re going to be there from nine o’clock most probably, but certainly at GSA until three or four o’clock because you do classes, you do workshops, you sing, you dance, you act, and doing those days, we’re watching you all the time. You’ve got to be you because you can always tell in an interview if someone is putting on a face or is putting on a front by the questions you ask them. Just be you because we can normally tell if they’re not.
Ilayda:
Amazing. Okay, thank you. And then Geoffrey.
Geoff Brumlik:
Yes, obviously the being yourself thing is huge. I think a big part of it is we’re not expecting you to come and audition as a fully polished actor. We are looking for the potential in you and being confident to be yourself, not arrogant, but confident to be yourself is part of going, “This person is trainable.” And they can build on what they are. I think in terms of auditions themselves, I think don’t feel… It’s a ridiculous undertaking in many ways to say, “You got two minutes to show us everything you can do.” Which is why we do two stages and we do a full day of seeing them working in groups and all of that. But in terms of the simple thing about the monologues, don’t pick the end of the third act of a play where you’ve had two and a half hours to build up to the end of Madea.
Pick something that represents you, because the best actor in the world can’t do that in a strange room in three minutes. Allow us to see a taste of you and allow us to extrapolate into that all that you can do. Because I think if you try and do too much or you think that we’re looking for something more than what you are, I think that’s the way you actually diminish what you have to offer. We have gotten, I think, over the years pretty good at looking at people and seeing through nervousness or seeing through specific limitations and trust that we can do that. That’s part of being yourself and also knowing what your strengths and your flaws are going in. That is something that recommends you as much as anything. It is be yourself, but it’s also work within who you are in terms of the work you show. Don’t try and represent yourself as being something other than that.
Ilayda:
Lovely, thank you. Helen?
Helen Mackay:
Yeah, just to carry on from that, they’re all brilliant points. I think something to really remember it is that the panel want you to do well. We are on your side. And, I think, certainly for RCS, the round-one panel is always made up of industry professionals who a lot of the time we’re still out there auditioning. Next Wednesday we’ll be on the other side of the table and just remembering that, remembering that we want you to do well, that you love to perform and you’re getting to come into a room and perform these monologues for an audience who really wants to watch you. And that’s us, that’s the panel. Because it can be really scary when you walk in and you go, “Gosh, I don’t know these people. Are they judging me?” We are actually so excited to see you. We’re so excited to see what you’re going to do with your monologues or your songs.
They’re the best days for me when I go, “Oh, I’m on the panel on Wednesday. Yes.” This is going to be a brilliant day of watching people come in and perform. How special, we’re absolutely privileged to get to watch you do that. I think that’s really important. Just another point, I think, remembering back to my day’s look many years ago, audition for drama school is to try not to compare yourself to anyone else, that your journey is completely unique, the point that you are at. And taking that into account in the room, it doesn’t matter if someone outside has been to theatre school since they were two months old and has had every… None of that matters. Your journey is unique and the passion and the potential that you show in the room is everything that we are looking for. It’s everything.
Yeah, because I think it can be really easy to maybe sit in the corridor and be hearing other people’s stories and go, “Oh gosh, why am I here?” I certainly remember that and actually go, “No, I deserve to be here. I’ve worked really hard.” Because you do, you work so hard for drama school editions. I think drama school editions are the hardest editions you will probably ever do and you will never be up against thousands of other people for a part. It doesn’t happen. Be kind to yourself. It’s difficult, but just remembering that you’re trying to find some enjoyment in that time. I also think that just looking at something that we often don’t talk about is when you do get in that strange time between maybe getting an offer and actually getting into the drama skill.
And it becomes really overwhelming. I would just urge you if you get that place, if you get that letter, to just enjoy that moment and go, “Gosh, I worked really hard for that. Yes, what’s to come is going to be difficult, but it’s exciting just to know that you really earned that place.
Ilayda:
That’s lovely. Thank you. Charleen?
Charleen Qwaye:
Yeah, I think it’s been said, be yourself. We’ve been going since 2010. Our narrative has never changed. We’ve always been about creating artists and training artists. The only way you can be an artist is if you are yourself, because that is what makes you uniquely you. That is your unique selling point. And if you hide that from us, we won’t be able to see, but you won’t be able to feel either if this is right for you. Being yourself is so important because it allows everything to open up and that’s what real training is, that’s what real education is, opening up everything. The mind, the spirit, the passion, the heart, the soul. You have every reason to go in and be you. We’re looking for you. And I think particularly with Fourth Monkey, we have options. We have different ways of the audition process folding. Whether that be the first round, which is the self-tape. But we have interviews. We talk to you. Another opportunity to be yourself. And don’t worry about if you’re dyspraxic, you mentioned that earlier. I’m going to bring that up.
It doesn’t matter because the amount of different workshops you do are going to flex a different muscle. We have the four different pillars of our training, act, to make, move, collaborate. At any time you’re flexing something else, you’ve got an opportunity to shine in a different arena. And if this is not your strongest suit, it doesn’t matter. We’re looking for ensemble players, and it’s more about the spirit of somebody who they are and who they bring as well as their talent. Obviously, we’ll take talent and passion as a given, but without being yourself, none of this can take off.
Again, you have the power. You’re auditioning us like we’re auditioning you, but you can say no. You can say, “Actually, I’m going to defer a year.” Or you can say, “I’m going to watch a few more of you…” I talk about us because I’ve ensemble, but I want to see more about you. This is all within your right. Go in head high, confident, bubbling, bustling, raring to go because that’s who you are and you’re going to show us that. And we’re thrilled to see that.
That’s why, like you said before, Helen, about being in person. Oh my gosh, how hard was it on Zoom? It just doesn’t replace human connection. Again, that’s why the conversation that we have is so important. Tell us what you love. Tell us what you hate. It’s all relevant. It tells us so much about you. What makes you cry? What do you do on a weekend? This stuff is the stuff of artists. It’s bigger stuff. That’s what we want to see when you come through the door. Bring it all, bring it all thoroughly. No apologies. No worry. Just bring it and have fun. Just have fun. It’s designed to be a fun day, the workshop day, the recall day. Don’t try and make it anything else, just jump in. Love it.
Ilayda:
Yeah. I remember being out in the industry and going to an audition and it was a room full of brunette blue-eyed girls and thinking, “Oh my God, what on earth?” But obviously it came back to… I remember talking to someone and they said, “Yes, okay, you all in essence look similar.” Et cetera, “Or have similar characteristics.” But you are and only you have your life experience and your voice and your perspectives and your learned bodily, everything that might be able to bring something to a role.
Charleen Qwaye:
Definitely can bring something to a role. Definitely. And if you’ve seen it a thousand times, it doesn’t matter. We haven’t seen your version. Show us your version because there’s million people that like me that look like you, that look like everybody else on this panel, but you are you. That’s the difference.
Ilayda:
Yeah.
Stewart Nicholls:
I also think that we’re no different really from the industry, in that people auditioning people for the industry. Again, what Helen was saying, couldn’t agree more. They want people to do well. We don’t want to sit there and watch rubbish. We want people to be good. We’ve come in with that attitude. I don’t think any auditionee should walk in thinking that we don’t want them to be there. Actually, I expect all my colleagues here have been to drama school, so we know what it’s been like to do that audition day and to be on that other side as well. Not just as a performer but as an applicant. It’s no different from us applying for our jobs. We know what it’s like.
Ilayda:
We’ve quite heavily touched on the philosophical and mental aspect of preparing for auditions going in as yourself and that having fun with it. But if I could just get a quick fire whip round of maybe a practical top zinger bit of advice as in it might be something to do with stretching body, voice, anything at all. If anyone has a top number one thing that they could recommend, obviously it might depend on what your school is or what your course specialty is.
Geoff Brumlik:
If I can say whatever state you do your best work in, whatever your calm focused state is. Spend time preparation, practising that, not while you’re working. Practise that while you’re at the grocery store. Practise that while you’re in line because I think so much of it is being able to hang on to your own breathing, your own calm, your own self because it is stressful. Allow yourself to become really used to what the version of yourself is that’s calm and has a good sense of humour, so that you’re not just trying to create that for that period that you’re in the hall, that it as much as possible becomes something that’s a second nature extension of yourself.
Ilayda:
That is really good advice. Anybody else?
Christabel Clark:
I would say prepare as much as possible. Do as much work as you can on your monologues or your song or whatever work it is that you’ve been asked to bring. Because what you want to be able to do, that’s going to set you up for success. I think the biggest help to leave nerves behind is to be super prepared to know you know that piece or those pieces inside out. You could do them standing on your head, back to front, in your sleep. And that’s the point then when at least you’re not going to be nervous about that stuff and when you can let go of that, so for the interview part, you are present and engaged and able to speak with someone and be yourself without worrying about the pieces that you’ve still got to perform.
Stewart Nicholls:
I think the same thing I’d say to people when I do audition classes in school is that control what you can control. If your music’s in a folder that’s falling off the piano, you could have controlled that. If the brief is that the speech is two minutes in your own accent pre-1960, don’t do a speech from Macbeth with a Scottish accent if you’re not from Scotland. You’d be amazed the people who don’t follow the brief.
Ilayda:
Really good.
Charleen Qwaye:
I was just going to add, yes, of course, research the brief, what needs to be done. Practise so that you feel confident. Practise to build confidence, but also do whatever you do to make yourself feel good before you walk in the door. And that should be completely down to who you are as an individual. If assuming, we are based in Finsbury Park, if it’s running up and down the street, no one will even notice it’s Finsbury Park, everything goes here. It’s a beautiful cacophony of wonderfully and diverse individuals. Do whatever makes you feel good, so when you go in, you feel good. It’s very hard to do less than your best if you feel good, if you just start off with it, if that makes sense. Yes, do your research and stick to whatever the brief is.
Definitely make sure you’re confident in the pieces that you’ve chosen and the work that you can control. But on the day, let it all go. Get yourself into the best place possible in the way that only you do or that only you can do. No judgement on it whatsoever and then just have the best time.
Helen Mackay:
Yeah, brilliant. I’d love to pick up on something that Geoffrey said actually, that is to remember to breathe. To remember when you’re in the room that that’s your time. Don’t rush, once you’re up there, take a moment, take a breath and go, “This is me, I’m here. I’ve worked hard to get here.” Own that moment. I think the moment before you start is so important. For me, I think, it’s connected to just breathing and everyone is guilty of that in life, in situations you go, “Well, actually I just needed to breathe.” And it sounds so simple.
I remember one of my parents asking me after a first term at drama school, “What have you learned?” And I was like, “Oh, I’ve really learned how to breathe.” And I remember my dad who worked on an oil rig looking at me going, “What?” But honestly, when I explained it, he was like, “Oh yeah, we need to breathe.” We forget, it’s the most simple thing. But just when you get there, just stand and just go, “I’m just going to take a breath before I start.” Really simple, but it’ll ground you and start you off on the right foot, I think.
Ilayda:
Amazing. It’s also a fundamental part of being an actor, being able to work with your breath. Really good advice all round. Thank you so much. Last couple of questions on this theme of leading up to getting into drama school, et cetera. The first one, it’s a quick one, if someone has been auditioning and auditioning and auditioning for drama schools and just isn’t having any luck. What advice would you have for them to try and skill up and break into the industry through other pathways?
Stewart Nicholls:
I think there are two things. One, let’s face it, you can do more training. You can do pre-audition courses. That’s the positive thing. The other side is if you are auditioning and auditioning and auditioning and not getting in, you might have to think, “Is somebody telling me something here?”
Ilayda:
Okay.
Stewart Nicholls:
That sounds quite… But sometimes you have to think, “Well, perhaps this isn’t the right career for me then.”
Ilayda:
Fair. Okay, great. Any responses to that?
Helen Mackay:
I was just going to say, I think when so much of your focus when you’re auditioning for drama school and so much of your energy is put towards the additions, it takes up so much time, it takes up a lot of money, all of those kinds of things. I think sometimes looking at other things that you can do with, you’ve only got one pot of energy and going, “Okay, if I still want to get into drama school and I really still want to try it, how can I balance that? Can I maybe apply for less places, but maybe take up some evening courses?” It has to be within your boundaries, what’s practical for you. But I think within the energy that you have to go, I think you have to ask yourself, “Am I just focusing on getting into drama skill or am I building on my skills and my creativity me as an artist in other ways?” I think that’s the question to ask yourself and see how you can balance that to move forward.
Ilayda:
Lovely. Yeah. Anybody else?
Christabel Clark:
I was just going to say, I think sometimes when you strive really, really hard for something, you are auditioning, you’re auditioning. You can get into this kind of hyper tense state where you are almost too desperate. You almost want it too much, and that doesn’t come across great. For some reason as humans, we’re not attracted to that desperation. Sometimes just taking a break, asking yourself, “Well, what do I want? I wanted to train as an actor. What about removing the barrier? What about just trying to work straight away?” At drama school you’re paying to be there. What about if you were open to taking on work for free or for very little money, but just to build experience just to see how you interact with other people.
It’s not always possible to get the highest level of work. If you wanted to train in something very specific like musical theatre, then certain of your skills, like your dance and singing might not be there yet, but there are other forms of work and acting work that you could take on and just get a feel for how you can learn and get real feedback on how you’re doing through that, and maybe take the pressure off yourself from the endless cycle of auditioning, and then see where you are and reevaluate six months down the line.
Ilayda:
Yeah. Geoffrey, you’re nodding along as though Christabel took the words out of your mouth.
Geoff Brumlik:
Yes. That is such brilliant advice and so well said. You need to be sure, I think. Even if you’re doing this year after year, that you are still evolving during that time as a person and as an artist, that it’s not a waste of time if you are growing from doing it either year after year or you’re doing things in between. Also, sometimes the reason you’re not getting into school is you’re just too young or you just aren’t at a place in your life where it feels like you’re ready for that. Don’t forget about life. I think we get so driven to do these things that…
Also make sure that there is some balance to your life which will actually make you better. You also don’t know where in theatre you will end up, which sounds very strange, but you may not end up exactly in the centre of acting. You may end up somewhere directing. You may end up writing. You may… Allow yourself to continue to discover what your strengths are as you’re doing that process. It isn’t just returning to the same sort of running towards the mountain, that actually, each time you do it, you feel like you’ve progressed in some way, whatever the result is.
Ilayda:
Yeah, I think it’s that classic, I don’t know if it’s actually attributed to Einstein or not, but often that thing like, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again without making any changes.” Maybe don’t do that. Charleen, did you have anything to add at all to that?
Charleen Qwaye:
Yeah, I was going to say feedback. Ask for feedback because if you come from somewhere that you haven’t maybe had the same level of experience as somebody else who’s auditioning, sometimes it’s really hard to know. And even if you have, sometimes it’s really hard to know. I think first starting with feedback, because if it’s something that you can develop for the next time around, you’ve given up and you didn’t probably… Do you know what I mean? You didn’t really have a good stab at it because you missed something that perhaps was completely unknown to you but was very obvious because we do this every day. I’d say feedback is definitely the first thing to ask for. I think the next thing is about reframing, because like I say, if it’s that… Okay, well, I may be aced. I don’t know the movement part of it, but I may be a little bit unconfident with standing and speaking or whatever it is because I come from a heavily movement background.
Cool. You can then do something about it because if that’s your dream, I don’t feel comfortable saying that you can’t do that. Does that make sense? I don’t feel like I have that power. I’m just careful of that. Look at reframing it. Yes, for example, we have a BA accelerated degree, which is a two-year course. A BA three-year degree, and an MA. Look for other avenues. There are artist development courses. We have a Co-Lab course, but look for these things and find them and use them as ways to explore who you are, what you do, how you do it. And like Geoffrey says, come back with more because you’ve done more. You’ve experienced more. You’ve explored more. Also, I think, another reason why I’m really passionate about is that everybody has the right to develop in their own time.
Now, it’s different with musical theatre because there is unfortunately a shelf life to certain elements of musical theatre. I have a musical theatre background. I’m all for that. But there are certain elements that you have to respect. But I don’t think that… I hate labels. I hate boundaries. I’ve literally got an allergic reaction to both of those things because I don’t think that they’re necessarily helpful. But I also think, “Then you don’t get those beautiful artists that came about because they genuinely stood on what they believed. Because they genuinely tapped into their individual power. Because they’re fierce about it.” I think it’s about reframing. I think it’s about getting feedback. I think it’s about genuinely exploring more and harder, and I think allow yourself to be human. We all take our timing. It’s a journey. It’s not reaching a destination. And sometimes people have to go around the houses.
Even the most successful people went around the houses. They felt the same obstacles, but it’s how do you overcome those obstacles? That’s just my tuppence worth. It’s my brand of talking. Everybody has their own way of saying things. But I just feel that sometimes there’s a pressure to be something at a certain time. Actually, people then rob themselves of that because actually theirs was two years down the line. Their was five years down the line. Again, know who you are. Trust your instinct. Be driven by your passion, and create your own space if it’s not there. We’ve seen that with Kayla Cole. We’ve seen that Phoebe Waller-Bridge. We see that all the time. Create your own path, but yeah-
Ilayda:
Stewart.
Charleen Qwaye:
Just keep doing things that make… Yeah, you live a fantastic life if you’re doing what you love.
Ilayda:
Yeah.
Charleen Qwaye:
Just making sure that you don’t allow it to kill your fire.
Stewart Nicholls:
There was a comment about feedback. Feedback’s really difficult depending on the school and the amount of applicants you have. We all have different policies about that. I know for example, I had 2,080 applicants yesterday… Sorry, last year for 22 places. I can’t give feedback to… If I give it to one, I’ve got to give it to all. And that’s really quite a tough thing actually, because I’d love to be able to. Do other people have the same issue there?
Charleen Qwaye:
I think not everybody asks for feedback, but I so hear you Stewart because we’re lucky to have a nice amount of people auditioning for our schools. That’s a wonderful position to be in. Again, I think it’s the question of, “Okay, how do we do that?” Not everybody’s going to ask for feedback. Some people got in, they don’t want feedback. But also some people get in and want feedback. I think it’s got to be… I’m not suggesting that everybody’s going to ask for feedback, but I so hear you. I think it’s just something… It’s another creative problem that we have to try and solve, possibly if that’s the nature of the school that you are a part of. There are other ways of finding feedback as well. I don’t know, acting coaches, trying other courses.
There’s not some ways to go on a feedback. If it’s not available in that particular institution… As actors, as artists rather, you’re investigators. That’s what you do. You investigate what makes you tick, you investigate what works, just investigate where you can get feedback, better feedback, useful feedback. But it is hard. Your right Stewart, when you have a large number of applicants, which is a wonderful problem to have.
Ilayda:
I’m just going to touch on something that came through… Oh, sorry, go ahead Christabel.
Christabel Clark:
I’m sorry. I got really excited. I was just massively agreeing with what Charleen was saying and thinking sometimes you can’t get feedback. You might try and you don’t get it, but then maybe in that case, just accept that the feedback is, it wasn’t right for me right now. And then reassess and think, “Well, what can I do now?” I always like to think of what can I do? Not what other people telling me I can’t, but where can I go from here. Reassessing where you are, and maybe if you’ve been auditioning for RADA, LAMDA every year, but you haven’t thought of other drama schools, or maybe the feedback is maybe I’m right for other schools. Maybe I’m right for other schools in a year or in two years. Just thinking about what you can do. Just echoing on what’s already been said.
Ilayda:
Yeah, I think that that common theme of how can you go and realign? How can you consolidate feedback and/or get a bit more lived experience, et cetera. It brings me very neatly onto my final question for this section, which is that I think very often drama school can be seen as a young person’s game. You finish A levels or college or whatever and you’re like, “I’m going to go to drama school.” Or you finish, maybe you do a university degree and you’re like, “I’m going to do an MA in acting or musical theatre.” Whatever. It’s seen as a 21 to 27-year-old landscape. I’m just wondering what do you have to say when it comes to the concept of mature students, 27 plus, who might be thinking that drama school could be the right path for them, but are a little bit umming and ahhing about it?
Stewart Nicholls:
Well, I can give an example actually. I used to run the MA actually at GSA Musical Theatre. I remember we had an applicant once and she was in her late 20s and she said, “I really want to do this.” And I didn’t even consider the age. I was just like, “This person’s talented and could work.” Well, sure enough, that person went straight into EastEnders, straight into a Netflix series and trained in musical theatre, I might add, and then just gone straight into a West End musicals and isn’t been in it for two years. That speaks for itself. Doesn’t it really?
Ilayda:
That really does.
Geoff Brumlik:
As someone who also works on an MA and MFA programme, I think that the idea of… I look for a class that has young… It’s actually far better if you have 21-year olds doing an MFA who’ve done some work, and you also have people up to 30 because it actually creates brilliant dynamic and they all feed each other. I think it’s important as you’re thinking of going back to study, I think knowing… The trouble of studying when you’re 18 is always that you don’t really have any idea who you are. At least when I went acting school, I really had not a clue as to who I really was. I think people who come back later on, they firstly appreciate what the training does. People who’ve been out in the industry, you just offer them a voice warm-up and they’re just delighted that the idea that someone’s going to do that for half an hour.
What you’re bringing to it is a far more experienced, complicated view of the world. I would also say that the thing to check in on is whether you are ready to embrace the structure of that. And I think that’s the only thing to check off. There’s some people that have been in life to the point where being in a structured environment, again, where eight hours a day are accounted for is not something that is attractive. And as long as that’s an appealing thing to you, yeah, I think there’s all sorts of options coming into it slightly later on.
Ilayda:
Yeah, I personally would love the structured eight-hour day. Does anybody else have anything to add to that? If not, I’ll move on.
Charleen Qwaye:
Can I just jump in?
Ilayda:
Oh, absolutely. Yes, please do.
Charleen Qwaye:
Just to say, obviously it depends on whether we’re talking musical theatre or drama again, but I think with drama, I don’t understand the age thing because they’re parts for every age. Does that make sense? I think if somebody is a bit nervous about it… And I also don’t think people are defined by their age. Do you know what I mean? There are 18-year olds who are worldly, really worldly because of their life experience and maybe had more exposure to various wonderful life challenges, shall we say, because of their background and that somebody else might be slightly older. But it doesn’t mean to say that they have the monopoly on anything at all. Age, it shouldn’t be a defining factor of anything. Again, if you want to do it, go ahead and do it. And how can you do it? Not, “Oh, I can’t do it because of this.”
You’re tripping yourself up before you’ve even begun. And this industry is hard enough as it is and as gorgeous it is, it not easy to navigate, but you don’t want to put your own obstacles in your own way, if that makes sense. Absolutely, go ahead and do it. No one is defined by one element of who they are. Age is just another one of those things. Do it. The community is richer because of it, because of difference. Don’t hide it. Don’t hide anything, but don’t hide that. You know?
Ilayda:
Absolutely. Yeah. It comes back to this thing about we’re ultimately all involved in the business of telling stories.
Charleen Qwaye:
Right.
Ilayda:
The more diversity-
Charleen Qwaye:
We need diversity.
Ilayda:
… and richness of experience, the better.
Charleen Qwaye:
Exactly.
Ilayda:
Amazing. That’s it. Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. If you enjoyed our discussion of all things drama school, make sure you listen to part two once it’s released. If you would like to find out anything more about some of the topics covered, then you can always head to the News and Advice section of our website. Also, you can find us on Instagram using the handle @spotlightuk, where you can find plenty more content, tips and advice for all things related to the performing arts industry.
Take a look at our website for more episodes of the Spotlight Podcast and more drama school advice.
